end of days.

[LA-girl]

First I will adress your questions regarding Gods punishment, I will get back to the propecies ab. the end of the world later.

jinxed wrote:

I also thought those who won't follow God will go 'eternally' in hell which now I see it's not true and that we will all eventually become nothing and not stay there, Do you know where it says that? I find that news good anyway.

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.

The wicked die the second death in hellfire. If the wicked lived forever being tortured in hell, they would be immortal. But this is impossible, because the Bible says God "only hath immortality." 1 Timothy 6:16. When Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden of Eden, an angel was posted to guard the tree of life so that sinners would not eat of the tree and "live for ever." Genesis 3:22-24. The teaching that sinners are immortal in hell originated with Satan and is completely untrue. God prevented this when sin entered this earth by guarding the tree of life.


Bible Clear--Wicked Obliterated
The Bible says the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalms 37:20), will "burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalms 37:38 ), will "consume away" (Psalms 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalms 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalms 62:3). God will "destroy" them (Psalms 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalms 21:9).

Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery.

"Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it."[/b] Isaiah 47:14. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth." "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Revelation 21:1, 4.

(There are a few verses that can be confusing, and I will advise you to read the article I referred to at the top of this page to explain these verses, like for ever are several places in the Bible referred to as an unspecified amount of time, or as long as the person lives -The words "for ever" are used 56 times in the Bible referring to something already ended.
Or better you can watch this video-clip that explains it even better:
CITIES OF ASH:http://www.amazingfacts.org/resources/video/MPVideo/mp10.asx)

Romans 6:23 The wages of sin is DEATH; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

NOTE: The punishment for sin is not everlasting life in hellfire, but the exact opposite--death. We all die the first death (Hebrews 9:27), but the Bible says that the death the wicked will die in hell is the second death (Revelation 21:8 ). From the first death, all are raised for punishment or reward; but there is no resurrection from the second death. It is final. In addition, if the punishment for sin is everlasting torment in hellfire, then Jesus did not pay the penalty.

And I also thought we will just all be in the same hell w/ no differences according to the degree of your sins- That's very fair that that isn't true as well. And where does it say that?

Here are a few scriptures that talk about varying degrees of punishment, according to their works:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12.
"And then he shall reward every man according to his works." Matthew 16:27.
"That servant, which knew his lord's will, and ... neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes." Luke 12:47, 48.

 

[LA-girl]

I understand that the Bible has many messages, but the book of Revelation is like a Riddle and its very difficult for the most senior clergy men to interpret.

You know Scatmantom, that was what I belived too a while ago, before I learned that it is in fact very easy given you have a functional brain and capable of reading. The trick to understand Revelation is given throughut the whole Bible, especially in the prophets of the Old testament. Daniels book in particular. Revelation consists of different symbols and in order to unlock those keys, you have to read the Bible to find the interpretation.

So in other words: THE BIBLE ITSELF IS THE KEY TO UNDERSTAND REVELATION! Isn't that amazing? That means that we are all capable of understanding the meaning of anti-christ, mark of the beast,666 etc.

I will give you a couple of examples:
• Beast= Kingdom/government/political power
(Daniel 7:17, 23)
• Woman, Pure = True Church
(Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27)
• Woman, Corrupt = Apostate church
(Ezk. 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4)
• Forehead = Mind
(Deuteronomy 6:6-8, Romans 7:25; Ezekiel 3:8, 9)
• Hand = Deeds / Works / Actions (Ecclesiastes 9:10, Isaiah 59:6 )

-If you want to know more codes: http://www.prophecycode.com/symbols.asp

NOTE! Speaking of HAND and FOREHEAD:
If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his MARK in his FOREHEAD,or in his HAND," Rev. 14:19

This is a verse in Revelation where it talks about receiving the Mark of the beast. Now most people today interpret this literally meaning that it is a mark that will be enforced like a tattoo or an implant. And it might seem that way if you do not know your Bible, because when you let the Bible interpret itself, you will see that FOREHEAD=MIND and HAND= ACTIONS/WORKS.

Besides Isreal hasnt rebuilt its temple and aslong as this terrible conflict carries on they wont be building it in a hurry.

The fault most christians do (IMO) is that they refuse to see that Revelation do not talk about the literal Jews or the literal Israel.

Many modern interpreters apply this promise to some future construction of a physical temple. But the Bible principle is that there is a secondary, worldwide fulfillment which is not physical, but spiritual. The New Testament confirms this by explaining how the prophecy of Amos has been fulfilled. "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up." Acts 15:14-16.

Please notice how James applies the Old Testament temple prophecies to the living church! The physical temple has now become the spiritual temple of the church, made up of Gentiles and all true believers.
No one should now be looking for any restored, literal temple to be built. The body of Christ's church is now the temple (1 Corinthians 3:16), and we are the "lively stones" of that "spiritual house" (1 Peter 2:5).

Who is the true Jews and the true Israel according to the NEW covenant?
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29. Paul makes it even clearer in Romans 9:8. "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Again, Paul wrote, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart." Romans 2:28, 29.

According to Paul, a real Jew in the sight of God is anybody—Jew or Gentile—who has personal faith in Jesus Christ!

“Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him” (Acts 10:34, 35).

Source:http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=647

I understand that people have fears of the end of the world, but thats irrelevent. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow and that will be the end of your world.

Of course, we should always be ready, like you say we never know when it will be the last day for any of us.
BUT, all those propecies in the Bible are given for a reason and God wants us to understand what the mark of the beast is, who the anti-christ is and what does 666 means....etc.

And it can easily be understood and identified if you have a Bible (+an Encyclopedia/internet would be helpful as well)

 

[scatmantom]

You know Scatmantom, that was what I belived too a while ago, before I learned that it is in fact very easy given you have a functional brain and capable of reading.

thanks for telling me I have got a disfunctional brain

 

[young]

In addition, if the punishment for sin is everlasting torment in hellfire, then Jesus did not pay the penalty

Sure he did. Jesus went to hell.

 

[LA-girl]

In addition, if the punishment for sin is everlasting torment in hellfire, then Jesus did not pay the penalty

Sure he did. Jesus went to hell.

Like I told you, the word hell is translated from three different words in the Bible: Place of darkness, Grave and the final act/place of hellfire (where all sinners will burn up).

So Jesus died (went to the grave) and rose from the dead the third day.
There is nobody in Hell right now if you refer to hell as a place of torture. It says in the Bible that all the dead are in an unconciouss state, sleeping, they are not aware of anything.
"...the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.

All the dead are in their graves awaiting their resurrection or day of judgement.
"The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction." "Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb." Job 21:30, 32.
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9.

Besides if the punishment for sin would be everlasting LIFE in torture Jesus would not have paid the price either as he rose from the dead after just a few days.

IN THE END THERE ARE ONLY TWO WAYS:
1) ETERNAL LIFE IN PERFECT HAPPINESS
2) JUST PUNISHMENT FOLLOWING DEATH (not eternal life in torture)

The fires will burn until only ashes are left. "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1, 3

 

[gg]

:arrow: *sigh* who cares??

 

[kurani]

Oh since when did this turn into a religious zealots website? I thought we were all about anxiety disorders? Everyday life is scary enough without worrying about the end of the world and how and when it may happen

 

[LA-girl]

:arrow: *sigh* who cares??

Yeah, you're right! Why don't we change the subject and start discuss something that REALLY matters.....like.....hmmm....wait, I got it :idea: :
Ok everybody: What's your favourite lipgloss? In the end what could possibly be more important right!? :mrgreen:

 

[kurani]

hmm mine's strawberry lol

 

[savage_beagle]

wherever /whatever...think it thru and be safe.

HI....ok...it was never my intentiom to turn this into some kind of relegious forum, i was just posting my thoughts on current world conditions and was hoping to spark a little life into those that are ''waiting'' for life to miraculously get wonderful and find that perfect time to do that amazing thing they want to do but hold back ...becuz of fear of living. So to those smart asses with their witty comments about relegion..fuck off......go back to whacking off on your latest computer game. AS for the holier than thou preachy princess, stop your relegious cutting and pasting and get a hobby or something.....your views got stale 3 pages back, at least give somebody a chance to give their own observations and thoughts on my original ''END OF DAYS '' POST. :idea: ---Go build noah's ark outta toothpicks and popsickle sticks , you can sail away with your 350 cats. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[kurani]

To clarify: my comment was not "some witty comment" I'm being serious, some of us have phobias and severe anxiety about apocalyptic events, I got into the thread thinking someone else may have posted about their similar fear

 

[gg]

:arrow: *sigh* who cares??

Yeah, you're right! Why don't we change the subject and start discuss something that REALLY matters.....like.....hmmm....wait, I got it :idea: :
Ok everybody: What's your favourite lipgloss? In the end what could possibly be more important right!? :mrgreen:

i like cherry...mmm!

 

[gg]

:arrow: oh, & by the way if the world does come to an end - it was nice Knowing ya! :wink:

 

[savage_beagle]

hi kurani, i wasn't trying to attack you, i hope you find the help you are looking for. I just got really frustrated with some of the replies and was looking to get some feedback on what others think of current world events, and as i mentioned...maybe people might get motivated to remember we should stop fearing life and to experience it while it quickly rushes past us. By the way, i am far from relegious...been in a catholic church for funerals and weddings, had my communion at age 11 and i decided to stop going after that . SOOOO...tell us....you are afraid of impending doom...apocalyptic events and biblical prophecies? I never heard of this...how common is this? Did you have a very strict, relegious upbringing? Maybe you can understand why i (on my own) stopped going to my own catholic church right after getting my communion at age 11, the chanting, burning crappy insence, the ''sin monday thru sat--be on church sunday'' crowds,the fears we got instilled in us (confessionals at age 10!!!...like i robbed a fucking bank and shot a hooker in the back!!)....yup....let the rest follow like retarded sheep, dont need no hypocritical church leaders to screw with my mind...already had family doing a great job in that department. :wink:

 

[kurani]

hey there well funnily enough I had no christian influence in my family whatsoever, actually more wiccan and spiritual - maybe thats why im terrified of end of the world - in case i really am evil and will go to hell lol :twisted:

but its quite hard to be any kind of spiritual when you get caught up in the anxiety trap.

Its probably more to do with not being in control than anything else, i know oneday i will die and i know one day the earth will cease to exist but im just not having it in my lifetime or the near future at least :!:

 

[LA-girl]

Scatmantom wrote:

thanks for telling me I have got a disfunctional brain

Was that a joke? In that case: LOL! If not, then I'm sorry if you got that impression! What I wanted to say is just that Propecies, including revelation can be understood by everyone who has a Bible. God wants us to understand these things and when we think about it it's only reasonable that the answers are given in Gods holy book. And so it is. And when you get the hang of it, it is actually very intriguing, it's like trying to solve the most important puzzle in the worlds history. I had actually planned to put out those biblical key-marks for identifying anti-christ and see if anybody could find out on their own. (Those key-marks are actually quite detailed!)But now I don't think it would be such a good idea as my posts don't seem to be very much appreciated...

SavageBeagle wrote:

AS for the holier than thou preachy princess,

I guess that would be me? But I'm not so sure God would agree with that statement I'm afraid.... :roll:

stop your relegious cutting and pasting and get a hobby or something.....your views got stale 3 pages back, at least give somebody a chance to give their own observations and thoughts on my original ''END OF DAYS '' POST.

Yes, I have quoted from a few articles in some posts, but a lot of it has been extracted from my own memory. Now there has been question raised from different people and when I feel I can contibute to help answer those question I don't really see the big crime in that. Also I have I have been dealing with a lot of fear for hell myself, I am more than willing to share the real Bible-truth (where eternal hell is non-existent) about these matters as it is obviously few who are aware of that. And also I think that having a fear of eternal hell is the most paralyzing fear anyone can experience. It really put my social phobia on hold for a few weeks until I learned the real truth. And I can tell you that SP is nothing compared to real hell-phobia. So if I can help to reduce that paralyzing fear that many people might have I don't see the problem in that.
And for those who think I am very religious and part of a sect or something I can tell you I am not. I do not even attend a church, and right now I have no plan to either. I am just a normal girl who are curious about these issues and when somebody raises a question I don't have the answer to yet, I try to find out what the Bible say and when I do i don't see the harm in sharing it with those who asks. I was actually trying to help, but if my answers to others questions are such a pain in the ass I am more than willing to back off!

---Go build noah's ark outta toothpicks and popsickle sticks , you can sail away with your 350 cats.

Now that actually sounds like a fun idea, maybe I should try that....

Besides I do have a life, I have a job, I have a boy-friend and if answering a few posts on this forum for a couple of minutes now and then is an indication for me not having a life, let me remind you that there are roughly 23 hours and 51 minutes left each day for me to get busy with other stuff. And where is those cats you mention, I don't see any? MEOW!

 

[scatmantom]

Scatmantom wrote:

thanks for telling me I have got a disfunctional brain


Was that a joke? In that case: LOL! If not, then I'm sorry if you got that impression!]

lol yea it was a joke

 

[LA-girl]

Ey jinxed! I promised to get back to you regarding your question about propecies in the OT. And before I back off completely from this topic I intend to keep my promise and answer...

jinxed wrote:

I never saw much info in the New Testament on the end of days tho so I'm not sure what scriptures you or savage_beagle may be referring to. The one I've seen was repetitive and pretty much the same in each of the different books of the new testament so I guess there weren't any in the old testament right?

Now there are especially one important book in the OT that has a lot to say regarding the final events (end of days before Jesus returns).
It is the book of the prophet DANIEL.

For instance:
Daniel chapter 7, clearly and unmistakably identifies the Antichrist.
Now in order to understand the propetic dream, you have to know the prophetic keys I was talking about in my post to Scatmantom.
BIBLECODES: http://www.prophecycode.com/symbols.asp

God gives us nine characteristics of Antichrist in Daniel 7 so we can be certain of his identity.

A. The "little horn" or kingdom "came up among them"--the 10 horns which were the kingdoms of Western Europe (Daniel 7:8 ). So it would be a little kingdom somewhere in Western Europe.

B. It would have a man at its head who could speak for it (Daniel 7:8 ).

C. It would pluck up or uproot three kingdoms (Daniel 7:8 ).

D. It would be "diverse" or different from the other 10 kingdoms (Daniel 7:24).

E. It would make war with and "wear out" or persecute the saints (Daniel 7:21, 25).

F. It would emerge from the pagan Roman empire--the fourth world kingdom (Daniel 7:7, 8 ).

G. Gods people (the saints) would "be given into his hand" for "a time and times and the dividing of time" (Daniel 7:25).

H. It would "speak great words against" or blaspheme God (Daniel 7:25). In Revelation 13:5, the Bible says the same power speaks "great things and blasphemies."

I. It would "think to change times and laws." Daniel 7:25.

Other characteristics from Revelation 17:
A. She is guilty of blasphemy (verse 3).
B. She is dressed in purple and scarlet (verse 4).
C. She is called the Mother (verse 5).
D. She has harlot daughters who also are fallen (verse 5).
E. She persecuted and martyred the saints (verse 6).
F. She sits upon "seven mountains" (verse 9).
G. She ruled over the "kings of the earth" (verse 18 ).

Don't forget--all these identification points come directly from the Bible. They are not some human opinion or speculation. Historians could tell you quickly what power is being described. Can you?

If not take a look at this:
http://www.amazingfacts.org/resources/video/MPVideo/mp13.asx

Now the Bible actually talks about TWO beasts.
To find out who the other beast is:
WATCH:
http://www.amazingfacts.org/resources/video/MPVideo/mp19.asx


Source: Who is the Anti-christ (The Prophecy Code)

 

[LA-girl]

Jinxed and everyone else who has an interest in this issue, I would highly recommend:

THE FINAL EVENTS

This is a site where you can explore bible-prohecies and important bible-issues in a very exciting way.
You have several choices:
* explore the site
* take a free course online
* view the entire lessons
* watch a video
* listen to audio-clips

It is all presented in a very light-digestable and visually pleasing manner!

Check it out on:

THE FINAL EVENTS OF BIBLE PROPHECY

(Cick the title ^ )

To go to the lessons with access to video/audio-clips, click the same title and then click
BIBLE PROPHECY LESSONS!

 

[LA-girl]

Ok, I just wanted to end this thread with a little notice about why prophecies are important.

Prophecy Strengthens Faith

The metal image in Daniel 2 is an incredible prophecy. *The one I put out on this thread* It outlines the kingdoms of the world in perfect order—Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, the divided Roman Empire, and ultimately the Lord’s coming. To date, it has happened exactly as God said it would.

It is simply not possible for a person, in their own power, to predict which nations of the world are going to rule over others, especially hundreds of years from now. We might suggest that Daniel wasn’t pressed too hard when he mentioned Medo-Persia as the next global empire. Everyone could see it was a rising power in those times. But Greece was just a country of warring tribes, and the Romans were nothing more than a virtual village. It must have been a ridiculous notion to even Daniel, who was faithful enough to report it nonetheless. And yet it came true, even down to the important details, such as each one lasting successively longer than the one before and the divisions of the Roman Empire.
How does that make you feel about God and His Word? It strengthens your faith. It certainly gives me courage! It suggests that other Bible prophecies can be trusted, and that God’s Word does not fail. Jesus said, “Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he” (John 13:19). In short, Jesus gives prophecies so that you will believe in Him. We have something to cling to so that our faith will remain strong even as tribulation comes.

Prophecy’s Ultimate Purpose

Revelation can be such a perplexing book. I’ve known a few dear souls who don’t even like to glance over it because it intimidates them. But while most people know Revelation as a powerful yet cryptic book penned by John on the island of Patmos, they skip right over the most telling part of the book—the first verse.

It reads, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ.” That’s enough, really, to get to the ultimate purpose of prophecy. Whether you’re reading prophecies found in Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, or Genesis, never forget that Jesus is the focus. He’s the ultimate point. Just read Isaiah 53 to see what I mean, and if you still don’t believe me, trust what Jesus did: “And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself” (Luke 24:27).

In John 5:39, He says, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” Jesus is in the warp and woof of every fiber of Scripture; all true prophecy ultimately points to Christ. He is the fulfillment of the Word. More than 300 Old Testament prophecies deal with Christ’s first coming alone.

Given time, a Bible, and a person who is honest and logical, I’ve always believed that I can convince a searching soul that the Bible is true based on the fulfillment of its prophecy. In fact, I used to be that person—an atheist who thought the Bible was nothing but a sad joke on deluded people. But we know that the prophecies in the Old Testament were written long before Christ appeared on the scene, and they came true. The timing of His birth, the place, the mother, and all the details of His ministry—His betrayal, His death, and His burial—were spelled out in amazing detail long before Jesus was born.

And if the Bible is right about the when, the where, the how, and the why, then we can also trust that it is right about the who. Jesus is the Savior, the only way to the Father.

The Principal Principle

The ultimate message of prophecy is redemptive. The reason that God tells you the future is not so you will know when to take your money out of the bank or so you can know when you’re supposed to run for the hills and stock up on food.

He tells you all this more than just to let you know when Christ will come the first time or the second time—or what happens during the millennium. He tells you so you will know He is God and to help you allow Him to come into your heart. And that’s true whether you are familiar with the many secrets of Revelation or whether you are just beginning to read the Bible. The joy and peace you feel when you know that God has a plan for you is one of the most faith-building experiences you can have.

Yes, He has numbered every star in the universe and knows what’s going to happen in the ceaseless ages to come. Yet despite this infinite knowledge of God, He has a hope and a plan just for you.

God is in charge, and He’s proven it with prophecy. He can be trusted, because His Word has never and will never fail. “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away” (Luke 21:33).

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=1831