Dutchguy's Journal

[dutchguy]

I'm still thinking over yesterday's events; on one hand, my friend meant well; he just wanted to help me 'get out more'. Is it just my Social Phobia that instantly rejects the idea of joining this club? Isn't forcing yourself to do things you're afraid of part of getting over SA?

Yes it is; and honestly, I think I might even enjoy the dancing once I could get over the extreme anxiety.

So I've thought it over and concluded that what really bothered me about last night wasn't so much the basic idea of a friend proposing a hobby where I get to meet people; it was the unrespectful and condecending way in which he treated me - as if I was his little brother who just needed to be pushed a little. At no point did he even consider the idea that I might not like this activity. At no point did he even consider that I might have my own opinion.

It's the same kind of treatment I've always gotten from my mom, who also always just told me what to do instead of trying to get me to take some initiative myself. It's the same treatment that got me into this state of SA anyway - and I'm not putting up with it anymore.

 

[dutchguy]

Well, it's been a pretty 'turbulent' week, and I feel 'beaten up' a little. I've done a lot of socializing, and a lot of it was new and difficult. ...but I've made it through 'em all.

The funny thing about getting over this social phobia or avoidant personality disorder (recently I've started thinking I have the latter) is how a lot of the things people have been saying for ages actually turn out to be true. In my obsessive search for a girlfriend that is still far from over, I've noticed that people's advice often seems like untrue cliche's until you experience it for yourself.

To give one example; the idea of 'personality over looks' didn't solidify in my mind until recently, when I found out that it's not just a matter of 'beautiful people are mean, average-looking people are nice'; even though I knew that personality is much more important than physical beauty, I've still been judging potential girlfriends mainly by their looks - even though I was looking more for a cute geeky one than a supermodel. But the truth is; there are mean 'ordinary girls' just as there are incredibly nice beautiful ones. While I do believe that looks have a big impact on someone's life (which is not very fair), there's no real connection between looks and personality - which makes the only way to discover wether you're compatible with someone... socializing.

 

[dutchguy]

Whew, lately I've actually been on somewhat of a roll! Today, I heard that some guys I had a 'sort-of job interview' with a few days ago actually called me assertive. Me, assertive?

Secondly, I have been chatting with some girl online and for the second day straight we've really been hitting it off! I rarely really experience what people call a 'click', but when it happens - it's awesome. I'm still afraid I ruined our conversation by being too silent in the end, but the progress is finally there.

I've always hated how people say that all you need is 'confidence'. Yeah, very helpful - how did I not realize that before? Getting more confident is a very tricky catch-22; it isn't something you can just decide to be - it takes a lot of time and work... but I think I'm slowly getting there. I've been more succesful than ever at work - people are almost literally lining up to get me on their team, I've been more social with girls, been less avoidant with social events... It's going so well that I'm almost expecting something bad to happen.

Anyway, before I sound too enthousiastic; there's still a long road ahead... but at least I'm back on that road and going faster than ever.

 

[dutchguy]

Secondly, I have been chatting with some girl online and for the second day straight we've really been hitting it off!

I'm still chatting with this girl nearly every day, but I'm getting the eerie impression that she's losing interest fast. I asked if she wanted to do something together sometime, but she just jokingly danced around the subject and ignored my question completely. I guess the ball is in her court now, but even though our conversations are fun and pleasant, she always manages to completely avoid responding to my casual flirty remarks.

 

[dutchguy]

I've been away from this forum for a while, but that time was not without its share of events. I've had a bad experience with someone who started stalking me after I briefly interacted with her on a dating site, I even had a date after which I politely declined her offer for a second meeting because I didn't think it was going to work out (we were just way too different).

...but I just got back from something I can only describe as the best date I've ever had, even topping the one where I had my first kiss. This time nothing of the sort happened apart from a customary kiss on the cheek, but damn, even though I fear that she will 'just want to be friends', it was great. I have a creeping suspicion that I'm way off base, but somehow to me it seemed like there was a definite 'spark'. Regardless of what happens next, it was a whole lot of fun.

Things like these are a great example of my insecurities with women - objectively speaking there were mostly positive signs, but it's almost as if my mind can't even comprehend the idea of someone being interested in me. Ah well, I'll find out soon enough - and I won't mind being proven wrong.

 

[dutchguy]

Well; the bad news is - I was way off base when I thought there was some kind of spark. She said so in a text message.

Sigh - I'm close to giving up on 'love' entirely. It's not even this particular rejection that stings so much, but I just don't know what I'm doing wrong anymore. I apparently managed to ruin the prefect situation - she asked me out after seeing my picture on facebook. I think that ultimately my downfall was that I acted too desperately, but when I'm constantly being rejected by the girls I'm interested in, how could I not get desperate at some point? I feel completely undateable right now - as if I might as well give up.

The only good thing is that the rejection doesn't hurt as much as I thought it would, which means that I've at least developed a way to deal with that. The bad thing is that I'm now convinced that I'm undateable and will have to start dealing with being alone for the rest of my life.

 

[dutchguy]

So, after a really long time (what's it been, 6 years?) I'm thinking I should revive this thread as looking back, it's helped me a lot with coping with the issues I had at the time.

A little summary of the years in-between; I've started and ended my first relationship (long distance though), lost my virginity and I've gotten ever so slightly more social. On the other hand I feel like I'm not that much further along on my journey than I was back then, and I'm still struggling with shyness, depression and anxiety.

Case in point; for the last few days I've been having an amazingly pleasant conversation with a woman on Tinder and all I'm wondering is when she'll finally realize that she's way out of my league. ...so I've decided to just enjoy this for what it is and not expect too much. But I'd be lying if I'd say that I didn't already have a crush on her. So at least in that way I haven't improved much.

One thing that has changed though is that I'm way more confident in at least being a likable human being; I've made quite a few good friends and made so many people laugh that I'm finally comfortable saying that I'm actually quite funny. It still doesn't feel right to 'brag' about myself in that way, but it's at least a quantifiable improvement over my past self.

 

[dutchguy]

I don't know if I'll be able to make this a daily thing again, but as long as interesting things are happening in my life, I might as well.

The most striking thing to me is that for the last few days I've been feeling happier than I've felt in a long time. The problem though is that it's mainly due to this one single tinder match, who'll be able to crush me in an instant if she decides it's not going to work out. ...and that's an extremely dangerous setup. It's so juvenile; I feel defeated when she doesn't reply to my messages quickly enough and elated when she eventually does. I remember being in the same situation many times before; it'd be the part where I might be close to actually getting what I really want for once in my life only to have it all crash down in front of me, leaving me down and depressed. It's a double-edged sword; on one hand these crushes are life-affirming and give me confidence, but on the other hand they have me putting all my eggs in one basket.

This might be an unsolvable issue though; the cycle of crushes, rejection and hopefully someday reciprocation is inherent in what we call love and without it, I don't think it would even be worth it all. But eventually it needs to pay off. ...and maybe someday it will.

 

[Hot_Tamale]

I'm intrigued to see how this scenario with your Tinder crush will work out. I'm rooting for you so I'll follow your thread. Call it living vicariously for now.

And welcome back.

 

[dutchguy]

I'm intrigued to see how this scenario with your Tinder crush will work out. I'm rooting for you so I'll follow your thread. Call it living vicariously for now.

And welcome back.

Thanks! I sure hope I'll be serving up a story with a happy ending!

Yesterday was a bit of a low-point for me. I'm sure we've all been in those stupid situations where the person you like doesn't reply for a few hours and you immediately convince yourself that you said something stupid and that of course it was never going to work in the first place. In the span of a few hours I must have gone through the entire 5 stages of grief, only for it to turn out that of course she was just out having dinner with a friend. On the inside I'm still a teenager apparently.

But ultimately I'm glad it happened because it made me realize that being able to let go is the only way out of desperation. It feels counter-intuitive, but knowing that I'd survive if it doesn't works out (even if it means a few days of depression) helps with being a bit more laid-back.

Another interesting insight it gave me is that the difference between confidence and insecurity is one of circumstance. When things went my way I was more confident and it showed in every aspect of my life. When things were crashing down around me, I retreated into my shell and felt like everyone secretly hated me. I was the same person throughout - the main difference was that for once, the hard work I was putting in yielded results. People say "be more confident", but you can't just turn that on - confidence comes from feeling secure in being able to make your life into what you want it to be... and if you're not able to do that despite trying your hardest, you'll be guaranteed to feel insecure.

Today things continued as they have; we have a really pleasant conversation and I'm hoping she'll agree to go on a date soon. I asked her out a few days ago but she thought it was still too soon, which I would have taken as a rejection if it wasn't for her contacting me first almost every day.

 

[dutchguy]

I really have to come to terms with my anxieties; today I was sure that she was slowly losing interest and I asked my friend for advice. He was surprised that I was still on Tinder's messaging system and advised me to ask for her number as soon as possible. I thought it was good advice but on the other hand I was dreading it a little; it's an explicit test of her interest and I was expecting to fail it.

It's stupid, but I secretly pride myself on being able to pick up hints of disinterest; you often read these Tinder/Facebook conversations online of clueless guys who fail to pick up obvious signs of disinterest and make a fool of themselves. This rarely happens to me; I usually know when I've failed to impress. Although this "skill" may also be a major Achilles Heel; when I finally manned up and asked for her number she replied "yes, of course!", so what do I know?

So despite myself, things seem to be going well. My friend also told me that I shouldn't think that anyone is "out of my league" which made me very appreciative of the wonderful and supportive friends I have. It was honestly a pretty big step to open up to him but I'm actually quite happy that I did.

 

[dutchguy]

Stepping out of my comfort zone is not something I do very often, but recent boosts of confidence have helped me in doing so in a few minor ways today. I must say I felt embarrassed in doing so but none of them went into the "worst possible case scenario" that I secretly dreaded them to turn into. I'm even a tiny bit proud of myself to be able to turn a bit of confidence into such an opportunity for moving my boundaries.

I'm now realizing that I've been "going through the motions" for a long time. I've been living life as usual - laughing, having fun, working - but I rarely got any genuine enjoyment or hope for the future from it. It's basically the classic symptoms of depression. To finally get some of that back and to learn that I might not be as completely hopeless as I've always imagined is a welcome diversion.

 

[dutchguy]

Today I've set myself the task of asking the girl I've been talking to on a date. While I'm fairly confident that she'll say yes, it also makes me nervous; I have a track record of doing well in texting conversations only to have them drop a "I didn't feel a spark" on me once we meet in person. This is the case doubly so with women I'm actually attracted to because I'm then so self-conscious about how I'm acting that I just come off as awkward, desperate and needy. But even if that's about to happen, I'd better rip off that band-aid sooner rather than later. If I want to be the kind of person who dates the kind of woman that I'm attracted to, I can't be too afraid to show my interest. Hell, maybe she'll even not want to go on a date in the first place. I'll update this post later today once I have her answer. Wish me luck!

EDIT: She said yes!

 

[dutchguy]

I hate it when I get desperate, depressed and mopey just because things aren't happening the way I want them to, but controlling your emotions is really difficult even when you know you'd be better off confident. While texting between me and this girl has been going wonderfully, when I asked whether or not we could schedule a date this weekend she deflected, saying that she was too busy. While I have no reason to believe she is not telling the truth, from my experience when someone really wants to meet, they'll suggest another option. Maybe she's even shy and a bit nervous to meet in person (which I could understand) - but deep inside, I feel like this is confirmation that this is not going to happen.

Even worse, it's bringing out an ugly side of myself; the desperate, needy side that wants a relationship no matter what and as soon as possible. I get irrationally angry at the world and myself and for what? It only hurts my chances, not just with this girl but life in general. The days when I felt sure that she was interested I was so confident that I had no problems fitting in socially - I wish I could just summon that confidence at will; I'd have a girlfriend in no-time. But now I'm once again feeling like it's slipped through my fingers. ...or maybe it hasn't and I'm just shooting myself in the foot.

So here's what I need to do. I need to stop being an idiot and realize that no amount of hoping and wishing will grant me a relationship - if she's decided she doesn't like me enough, that's it. If she's still interested, great. In the meantime I should go on with my life and do the things I like to do. ...even if I feel like crying myself to sleep for no reason because apart from one minor thing, all signs are still pointing towards us going on a date at some point.

 

[lily]

is there anything else that you like to do that'll distract you from this girlfriend issue?

 

[dutchguy]

is there anything else that you like to do that'll distract you from this girlfriend issue?

There's quite a few things; work, hobbies and friends are all things that I like to occupy myself with and they're sufficient distractions, but they never distract me for long. What seems to work best is reminding myself that even if this doesn't work out, I'll have other options in the future - I've felt this same way in the past and I will feel like this someday again.

Meanwhile, I'm feeling her interest fade again, although I've been wrong about that before. I'm trying to talk myself through it, saying to myself that I've been wrong about this before, that I'm a great catch, that I'm definitely good looking enough and that if she doesn't really take an interest in me, it's not worth the work on my part anyway. Still, I'd feel better if it'd at least ended after a first date.

 

[dutchguy]

With regards to the girl I was texting every day - it didn't lead to anything. While she always remained friendly, it never resulted in a date. While this was pretty much what I expected from the start, it's still a disappointment.

Nevertheless, in the meantime I've been dating another girl and she's much more obviously interested. So much so that after a few dates we're now pretty much in a relationship. I have to admit I'm still somewhat getting over the previous girl (who I had a really intense crush on) but I don't want to let that ruin a potentially great thing with someone who actually likes me.