Considering ETS, it isn't that bad...

[SweatSweatGoAway]

Hello,

I just can't see myself being "electrocuted" by iontophoresis throughout my life, or taking oral drugs everyday of my life. I still haven't even got iontophoresis to work, it's seems like it's taking forever. Also, I'm so self-conscious about sweating that even a couple of sprinkles of sweat, or just feeling that "sensation" of sweating on my hands causes me to go into that intense mental breakdown period.

I've been doing a lot of research into ETS, and it doesn't seem that bad if you know exactly how the surgery is going to be done. It's all about the nerves the doctor cuts (T1/T2/T3/T4/T5). The people who are telling the horror stories left and right are the ones who either didn't do their research or had the surgery done before 2000, when there were hardly any studies done on sympathectomy techniques. A large percentage of people got ETS surgery for facial blushing, which is much more common than palmar HH. The nerve they cut for this, T2, has a much bigger purpose than to just produce sweat; it controls thermoregulation processes. T1 is even worse, giving larger chances for horner's syndrome, a decreased heart-rate, etc. Also, contrary to T3/T4/T5, compensatory sweating is 100% with T2 cut.

Following 2000 there have been multiple studies out there on ETS, comparing the surgery techniques. A notable one is the Lin-Telaranta classification. It prompted a new way to perform sympathetic procedures:

ABSTRACT

Background and Aims: The second sympathetic thoracic ganglion has long been regard*
ed as the most important structure in all sympathetic procedures for any indication, be
it hand sweating, blushing, or social phobia. Earlier, we had found an interesting new
basis for the selection of more specific methods in individual disorders. The aim of the
present study was to either confirm the old theory or to bring forward a more appropri*
ate theory for sympathetic surgery to be used as a classified method.

Material and Methods: Altogether 193 patients were treated in Taiwan and 55 in Fin*
land according to the new selective principle. Endoscopic sympathetic block of the sec*
ond thoracic ganglion (ESB 2) was used as a method for conflicted type of social phobia
or blushing for 25 patients. ESB 3 was used for facial sweating and blushing for 55 pa*
tients. ESB 4 was used for hand and axillary sweating for 168 patients. Reflex sweating
was taken as the most important sign of unsuccessful surgery.

Results: All patients benefited of the procedure in their presenting symptonls. Four
of 25 cases in ESB 2 -group and three of 55 cases in ESB 3 -group had unacceptable
reflex sweating. No patient with reflex sweating was found in ESB 4 -group.

These results confirm our previous findings, that sympathetic nerves innervate the
human body in similar dermatome fashion as the peripheral nervous system. Accord*
ing to this, we organized the various sympathetic disorders into three main categories:
those restricted within the head, like conflicted type social phobia and conflicted type
blushing, to Group 1; those on the head and face, like sweating with or without blush*
ing, to Group 2; and those in the hands and underarms to Group 3. The principle of
different surgical procedures for different disorders of the sympathetic system are pro*
posed: ESB 2 for Group 1, ESB 3 for Group 2, and ESB 4 for Group 3 disorders.

Conclusions: We call this new classification uLin-Telaranta classification". Not only
the incidence of complication rates is lowered but also the side effects can be predicted
by the Lin-Telaranta classification in sympathetic surgery.

Key words: Endoscopic Sympathetic Block by clamping (ESB), Lin-Telaranta classification, reflex sweating,
conflicted type social phobia; blushing and facial sweating; hand and underarm sweating

As you can see, a person with palmar hyperhidrosis treated with a T4 sympathectomy can be cured with no compensatory sweating.

Here is the guideline to follow:

Gr. 1: ESB2, (2.5 % in Taiwan, 15 % in Finland)
Facial blushing, Rhinitis, Psychic disorders, An*
gina pectoris, Hypertension, Trembling, Parkin*
sonism (?), Migraine (?), Addiction (?)
Sleep disorders (?) ...
Gr. 2: ESB3 (2.5 % in Taiwan, 60 % in Finland)
Craniofacial sweating with or without facial
blushing, Hyperhidrosis Palmaris with Cranio*
facial sweating, Rosacea, Angina Pectoris, Hy *
pertension, Trembling, Parkinsonism (?), Mi*
graine
Gr. 3: ESB4 (95 % in Taiwan, 25 % in Finland)
Hyperhidrosis Palmaris with or without axillary
hyperhidrosis
(Bromidrosis)
Gr. 4: ESB5

pure Hyperhidrosis axillae (Bromidrosis)

Here is the link to the full study: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=...it/info/Ann_Chir_2001_Lin_Telaranta.pdf&pli=1

 

[grimaldi]

Don't do it. Apart from the almost unavoidable and horrific side effects, there is mainly two things that made me decide against ETS:

1) People like us, today worrying about sweating and blushing, will not be calm or find any rest after ETS. Can you believe how many hours per day that would be spent looking for side effects? I would every day check my hair, check my face, measure my heart beat - did the ETS change my body? I would be even more worried after ETS, knowing that it will potentially bring a lot of side effects. At least now, I know what is wrong with my body.

2) The science is going forward and there will be another way to cure or relief our symptoms in the future, even if it takes 10 years. Telaranta has hinted himself there are experiments with magnets to adjust the nerves, instead of cutting them right of. Can you imagine the feeling of having done ETS, and then read about a new and safe method, when there is no turning back for yourself?

And of course, what you cited above is not true. The doctors do not fully understand the Sympathetic Nervous System. Ask yourself: If this classification was totally correct, and there was no side effects from T4, why wouldn't all the doctors use this classification? It was, after all, 10 years since it was first introduced, and if successful, it should have been in use world wide.

----

I haven't been active at this forum for a while. I am now home visiting my family, not obsessing over problems or taking any medications for a couple of weeks. I am still sweating, still blush every once in a while.

Yesterday I had a talk with my older sister concerning the Sympathetic Nervous System, since her daughter (my niece) recently has been showing symptoms related to this.

It turns out my sister also have the same problems throughout her life: Sweating, palpitation, trembling voice when being in focus or holding a speech. She avoids these situations and have somewhat adjust her life to it, but do not seem to be so bothered about it and lives a quite family life with kids, a job and many friends and activities.

I know it is running in my family and have accepted the fact that my Sympathetic Nervous System gives me troubles. And I am determined to fight it.

In August I will start to use Inderal: I always responded good on this drug and made a super presentation totally relaxed about two months ago, in front of 20 people and a political science professor, after having taken 80 mg Inderal. I also noticed I was sweating less when I went for a run later the same evening.

I will keep you updated on this in August/September, but till then I will not be so active here, but try to have a decent summer without thinking and writing about the topic every day. Sorry for that.

/Grimaldi

 

[Sprawling]

SweatSweatGoAway: If you are someone who sweats on other areas of your body besides your hands and feet, please think again before doing ETS. Compensatory sweating is real and common and worse for people who sweat throughout. I get some compensatory sweating from iontopheresis treating my hands and feet. It gets even a little more worse when I treat my under arms with Certain Dry.