...because of anxiety.

[mienaino]

I know I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this, but...

I often hear about how people do things or do not do things "because" of social anxiety or the like. This is a misconception. Anxiety doesn't make you do anything. If you miss school, or if you don't have a job, or if you can't make eye contact, or what-have-you, it isn't "because" of anxiety, it's your own independent reaction to anxiety. It is your decision. There is nothing that strips you of your ability to recover more than your own inability to take responsibility for what actions are decisively, independently yours. If that's your frame of mind, then you're just waiting for someone or something else to take the anxiety away, which is not going to happen.

Anyway, this is just an open note on the subject, so digest it if and how you will.

 

[jamez]

It is true we have free will, you can accept your situation as it is but can make a concious effort to improve on it.

 

[Darkly13]

I hope that you are living your life under your own advice.

 

[coriander1992]

I don't think this is strictly true.
you are saying social anxiety doesen't make us do anything, and that it is just our minds, but is that not what social anxiety is? a "condition" (call it what you will) that changes the way we think
Are you saying that social anxiety does not MAKE us anxious then? (sp?)
if it does not do those things that you listed, then what does it do?

p.s.: this isn't an attack, i'm just giving my POV

 

[mienaino]

I don't think this is strictly true.
you are saying social anxiety doesen't make us do anything, and that it is just our minds, but is that not what social anxiety is? a "condition" (call it what you will) that changes the way we think
Are you saying that social anxiety does not MAKE us anxious then? (sp?)
if it does not do those things that you listed, then what does it do?

Social anxiety is anxiety. Anxiety obviously influences decisions, it's an added dose of pressure, but it doesn't force your hand, so to speak. I didn't say that it doesn't make you anxious, it's a psychological condition which practically generates anxiety. What I was saying in my original post was that anxiety is not an excuse for what you do and don't do. If it were an excuse, then cleptomaniacs would be covered to steal anything they want and pedophiles would be covered to molest children, etc. It doesn't matter how difficult your circumstances may be, you are responsible for your own actions.
And Darkly13, I appreciate your cynicisms. I hope so too.

 

[coriander1992]

I don't think this is strictly true.
you are saying social anxiety doesen't make us do anything, and that it is just our minds, but is that not what social anxiety is? a "condition" (call it what you will) that changes the way we think
Are you saying that social anxiety does not MAKE us anxious then? (sp?)
if it does not do those things that you listed, then what does it do?

Social anxiety is anxiety. Anxiety obviously influences decisions, it's an added dose of pressure, but it doesn't force your hand, so to speak. I didn't say that it doesn't make you anxious, it's a psychological condition which practically generates anxiety. What I was saying in my original post was that anxiety is not an excuse for what you do and don't do. If it were an excuse, then cleptomaniacs would be covered to steal anything they want and pedophiles would be covered to molest children, etc. It doesn't matter how difficult your circumstances may be, you are responsible for your own actions.
And Darkly13, I appreciate your cynicisms. I hope so too.

ok, i understand what we are saying, but I think that everybody does this to an certain extent.
e.g. I find it hard to make friends because i have social anxiety.

Would you not say that this statement is fair for a person with, SA?
or is it their fault they find it hard to make friends?
or: I wont leave the house because of SA?

I think waht you are saying is right in a sense, but I think it is generally accepted that SA can make you do/not do things, for example:

SA makes me shake when i'm talking to people?

do you not agree?

 

[mienaino]

ok, i understand what we are saying, but I think that everybody does this to an certain extent.
e.g. I find it hard to make friends because i have social anxiety.

Would you not say that this statement is fair for a person with, SA?
or is it their fault they find it hard to make friends?
or: I wont leave the house because of SA?

I think waht you are saying is right in a sense, but I think it is generally accepted that SA can make you do/not do things, for example:

SA makes me shake when i'm talking to people?

do you not agree?

It's fair to say that you have difficulty in social situations, and thereby difficulty making friends due to SA. It doesn't mean that you can't try. And it's fine if you don't try, but only realize that it's your concious decision, not "anxiety made me do it," or in this case "anxiety made me not do it." Having difficulty making friends isn't anyone's fault. For some it's harder than it is for others, but I don't see any place for blame.
And yes, anxiety can make you shake when you talk to people. What I was addressing in the original post was your concious actions. So, anxiety can make you shake while you talk with people (well, not the anxiety itself, but... it's complicated), but it can't make you not talk with people. The reason I bring this up is because it's all-too common for people to say that they can't make friends "because" of anxiety, or they've missed a lot of school "because" of anxiety, or they can't work "because" of anxiety, or any use of anxiety as an excuse for their actions or inactions. Shaking, blushing, sweating, all of those things are not entirely under your direct control, but your actions are.

 

[ozkr]

Shaking, blushing, sweating, all of those things are not entirely under your direct control, but your actions are.

How can actions that are influenced by things that we cannot control be our fault? How can you expect a person who is affected by irrational fears ,anxiety, depression,or any other disorder to act as if he/she wasn't? It's not a choice and it's not a switch you can turn on and off.
And using pedophiles and kleptomaniacs to support your arguments is absurd. If any fucking mental disorder could be controled and didn't affect people's lives it wouldn't be a mental disorder at all. The problem with your strawmen is that their actions affect others directly.

 

[Danfalc]

Im having c.b.t therapy.. and this is the exact same point my therapist is making and i can see where you coming from to a certain degree,but yeah okay.. its up to me not my anxiety and agraphobia or depression to go out of the house..and obviously if i let my illnesses rule how i did thing all the time i would never get anywhere.But when i do go out and my panick attacks kick in and i feel like my heart is gonna burst through my chest i cant think properly.. i physicaly cant speak.. so anxiety does actualy control me to a certain degree.. because when im like this i couldnt calmly go for a job interview.... i can hardly cope with walking up town being near people and dealing with a single shop assistant... so yeah maybe i still have freedom of choice and i could say go out to the pub or somthing... im still gonna be a nervous wreck and because im not ready for that yet.. its going to be counter productive and is gonna make me more ill and scared to go out next time.So we might have choice but there not really realistic choices all the time.

I get into heated discussions about this with my therapist and it sounds like you have the same kind of black and white view of it as he does and he says well its not actualy anxiety which makes you get panick attacks in these situations its the way you think about them and you percieve them as a threat ..anxiety comes from negative thinking and also the way you think about yourself(and hes right to a certain point).So really all its saying is somthing we all all ready know.. posative thinking..and if it was just that easy to stop thinking how we do there wouldnt be so many of us struggling to beat it...Im not trying to say its wrong cos i actualy think there is somthing to it.. and its a stlye of thinking and looking at our problems some people could maybe use to get better.But i dont think its quite as black and white as you say in my personal opinion.

 

[coriander1992]

.But i dont think its quite as black and white as you say in my personal opinion.

thats a really good way of putting it !!

 

[Tryin]

Well. I like to put it this way: there (everywhere) are negative things. Some of them can be fixed - let's call these ones PROBLEMS. Others can not - those ones are simply FACTS. The best way to treat a problem is to try and solve it. The best what you can do with a fact is accept it and deal with it.

Social phobia is a fact. Shaking is a fact, sweating is a fact, flushing is a fact, panic attacs are a fact. You can take meds or visit therapy, but it will still be there. It's unsolvable - therefore it's pointless to consider it a problem (or anyone's fault).

The unability to cope with the phobia is a problem. Feeling bad because of phobia is a problem. Social deprivation caused by phobia is a problem. Avoiding contacs because of phobia is a problem.

And problems are solvable. It might take a little effort, you might need a little help, but Mienaino said it. It's up to you, it's your responsibility. If you want to do it, you can. You have all you need.

 

[Danfalc]

I agree to a certain point Tryin.. if you sit just expecting to get better then people are probaly gonna be waiting a long time.And yeah seeing sp as a problem to overcome and to challenge is alot more healthy than dwelling on it.Im not saying yourself or mienaino are saying this ,so in no way is this trying to like counter what ur saying.. cos i agree with you both.. but i dont like that this line of thinking can imply to some people and suggest that were choosing to live like this just as victims and were ill because we choose to be and "not do anything about it"... or that we can simply choose to stop thinking negativley,...so its really our fault were ill.

as ive said my cbt therapist uses it as his main way of treating anxiety.. and while it has good points i dont think its the answer for everyone.any illness affetcs people so differently... some people may only get anxious in some situations.. some people cant leave the house.I know myself i think 2 negativley.. and yeah i need to think more posative.. but you know theres reasons for why i am how i am,factors out of our controll like upbringing which my therapist doesnt take into account.. im not using that as an excuse.. but if i could just simply click my fingers and think that life was rosey i would.And not all problems are solvable... well ill put it like this what might just be a problem for you that you feel ya can solve... might be a fact of life for someone else.

Anyway guess its down to peoples circumstanses and opinions.

 

[Waybuloo]

I know I'm probably going to get a lot of flak for this, but...

I often hear about how people do things or do not do things "because" of social anxiety or the like. This is a misconception. Anxiety doesn't make you do anything. If you miss school, or if you don't have a job, or if you can't make eye contact, or what-have-you, it isn't "because" of anxiety, it's your own independent reaction to anxiety. It is your decision. There is nothing that strips you of your ability to recover more than your own inability to take responsibility for what actions are decisively, independently yours. If that's your frame of mind, then you're just waiting for someone or something else to take the anxiety away, which is not going to happen.

Anyway, this is just an open note on the subject, so digest it if and how you will.

I used that excuse often in the past, as an easy way out of social or other obligations, even if i knew i could do it but would feel uncomfortable by my anxiety.

I stop myself now from using that excuse. Like when I work partime and have to take passport photos and cut them while they watch me intently, I feel anxious btu i stick wiht it. But i could see how easy it is to say, oh i wont do it it makes me feel like im about to shake and have a panic attack.

I can see how applied to social invitations, I would be fearful abotu the event, but it's so easy to switch between saying yes or no(what u said about independent decisions), even though the anxiety would still be there.