Are "male losers" doomed forever?

Megaten said: ↑

They dont make any kinda special accommodations for people with ADD or anything? I know they always say on the syllabus something about helping those with disabilities but I dont know if learning disabilities count.

I wouldn't really know because unless it is 100% necessary, you shouldn't tell anyone who matters that you have some deficiency like this, because they could use it against you...

Well I meant like professors and whatnot. Not classmates or anyone that theoretically may have something to gain from bringing you down a notch. Ive known a few people with in class with learning issues but I wouldnt know what was being done to make that process easier. Just wondering.

Honestly I consider that reddit post to be a generally accurate representation of how people think, but I am also face to face with my loserdom.

Kiwong said: ↑

I kind of like getting older and not being so much ruled by my hormones.

What this man said! The male sex drive is ultimately a curse for men even if you are a man who has no trouble finding women to sleep with you. The man with a high notch count is just as much a slave to his drive as the man who struggles. Just look at the situation that Charlie Sheen is in now!

True, its usually better to have too much of something rather than too little but it all comes at a price. The ultimate price is all the time and energy a man has to put into pursing the sating of his sex drive which is really an activity with diminished returns or in the case of the casual sex culture we live in now, zero returns.

It's true that men are biologically programmed to spread their seed but in the casual sex culture no seed is being spread. So really all it is is scratching an itch until the itch pops back up again.(no pun :bigsmile:)

Edited to add: I'd rather not have the itch!

But you can really only see the forest when you get older and your hormones level out. When you are young and in the thick of it it's very hard to see it for what it is. The monkey is on your back.

This is not to say that I would not engage in and enjoy casual sex at this age but rather that the urgency to expend a bunch of time and energy to get it is not there like it used to be.

The process doesn't justify the "reward".

Megaten said: ↑

I might have to agree with Bronson99 on this one. I dont wanna get into trouble by starting a "who has it worse" battle, but I will say that women can be pretty picky about quite a few things. Physical beauty just might not be yall number one priority.

I'm always curious to know more of what it's like for guys with SA. Of course, to be a male with confidence and financial deficits in present-day culture is brutal. But I think it's improving with the recent attention given to personality types and introversion vs. extroversion. I see that shy males are still struggling, but more often they're seen as "sensitive" and pensive.

Heck, I even wonder if ADD is getting a better rep lately. Last month, I told a co-worker I was (not have) ADD, and she congratulated me, claiming people with ADD are actually gifted in ways others strive to be. Verdict is still out on that one, but I admit I appreciated her response. Similarly, a small bit of the negative associations with SA in males sometimes translates more positively than in the past. Like myself, it seems like more women nowadays seek the qualities of a more thoughtful, gentle and quiet male than the over-the-top personality of previous generations.

But what I don't see is the same shift happening for women. If it's true that art imitates life, then my observation must not be too far off. Look at what society currently portrays as the ideal woman. Usually, it's a woman who is "killing it" - very outspoken, take charge, competitive, fearless and, sometimes, shameless. For those like myself who fall on the opposite end of that spectrum, things get real hard, real fast. As a shy introvert with confidence issues, I can't tell you how many times a so-called alpha male loses interest in me when the topic of social anxiety comes up. Just as evidence of it surfaces, suddenly I go from being a "special woman" to just "special" and flawed, no longer a worthy candidate. It's rude and heartbreaking; but mostly it's a shame because I'm the kind of woman who, if the tables were turned, would become more interested him and want to get to know him more intimately. This actually happened with someone I met years ago. We talked openly about our SA and grew very close despite it, discovering there was much more to us than our deficits.

Bronson99 said: ↑

Really hard. Short-term memory deficiency is common for most with ADD. I can read a sentence at the beginning of a paragraph, come to the end of that paragraph, and realize I don't understand because I wasn't paying enough attention. I wish I could tell you how slow it makes reading, compared to the average person. If the material is stimulating and/or easy reading, then sometimes I can read about "half the speed" of the average person, but most reading material is not stimulating or easy.

Yup. I had to restart your post twice. :/

S_Spartan said: ↑

Yep, the interesting thing is that approaching girls in public in 2015 will actually set a dude apart from the hoards of thirsty guys playing the numbers game online.

It could even be the best time for a guy to be a Luddite and not even bother with texting a girl he meets in public but just insist on good old fashioned phone calls and even then only to arrange a time to meet.

Oh and there are guys who go outside of America to find women they can gel with better.

Ladies, are there any options for us outside the U.S.?

iheart said: ↑

I'm always curious to know more of what it's like for guys with SA. Of course, to be a male with confidence and financial deficits in present-day culture is brutal. But I think it's improving with the recent attention given to personality types and introversion vs. extroversion. I see that shy males are still struggling, but more often they're seen as "sensitive" and pensive.

Heck, I even wonder if ADD is getting a better rep lately. Last month, I told a co-worker I was (not have) ADD, and she congratulated me, claiming people with ADD are actually gifted in ways others strive to be. Verdict is still out on that one, but I admit I appreciated her response. Similarly, a small bit of the negative associations with SA in males sometimes translates more positively than in the past. Like myself, it seems like more women nowadays seek the qualities of a more thoughtful, gentle and quiet male than the over-the-top personality of previous generations.

But what I don't see is the same shift happening for women. If it's true that art imitates life, then my observation must not be too far off. Look at what society currently portrays as the ideal woman. Usually, it's a woman who is "killing it" - very outspoken, take charge, competitive, fearless and, sometimes, shameless. For those like myself who fall on the opposite end of that spectrum, things get real hard, real fast. As a shy introvert with confidence issues, I can't tell you how many times a so-called alpha male loses interest in me when the topic of social anxiety comes up. Just as evidence of it surfaces, suddenly I go from being a "special woman" to just "special" and flawed, no longer a worthy candidate. It's rude and heartbreaking; but mostly it's a shame because I'm the kind of woman who, if the tables were turned, would become more interested him and want to get to know him more intimately. This actually happened with someone I met years ago. We talked openly about our SA and grew very close despite it, discovering there was much more to us than our deficits.

I suppose its entirely possible...I mean I can only speak from personal experience and that can be clouded and not entirely based on facts. I've always thought that many women found my nature a complete turn off over the last decade, then again I only made attempts at actually getting dates about as many times as I can count on one hand. So it could be entirely possible that women are more accepting of SA guys and those few times were rotten luck. But I cant speak for everyone on that one. I would like to see a non biased study done on it though. But like I said before, a lot of times I have a hard time trusting my thoughts. I get pretty bent out of shape from any perceived slight, like for instance I had a few of the young women in my class earlier this week laughing at me because they said I always seem lost and confused. I took it pretty hard and felt like trash, but for all I know they might have found it adorable.

sprode said: ↑

Honestly I consider that reddit post to be a generally accurate representation of how people think, but I am also face to face with my loserdom.

That Reddit post is a generally accurate representation of what some angry and possibly bitter woman had to say, at that moment.

I've had to put it out of my mind. I think you should do the same. We all know that there are some losers out there, living at home with crappy jobs (or even none), who nonetheless have been with a woman.

iheart said: ↑

IAs a shy introvert with confidence issues, I can't tell you how many times a so-called alpha male loses interest in me when the topic of social anxiety comes up. Just as evidence of it surfaces, suddenly I go from being a "special woman" to just "special" and flawed, no longer a worthy candidate.

Maybe I'm wrong, but have I called your own bluff?

iheart said: ↑

Heck, I even wonder if ADD is getting a better rep lately. Last month, I told a co-worker I was (not have) ADD, and she congratulated me, claiming people with ADD are actually gifted in ways others strive to be. Verdict is still out on that one, but I admit I appreciated her response. Similarly, a small bit of the negative associations with SA in males sometimes translates more positively than in the past. Like myself, it seems like more women nowadays seek the qualities of a more thoughtful, gentle and quiet male than the over-the-top personality of previous generations.

Well, for me, it's a terrible curse. I can't get myself to do anything that's boring or doesn't have some tangible reward. Can't get through a novel with anything more than slight complexity, in less than 3 months. Often enough, I can hardly even motivate myself to do things I *like* to do.

So, my executive dysfunction is extreme, and my energy level is low. That's the inattentive type for you.

There's another type--the predominantly hyperactive--which, while it shares many similarities, it expresses itself in a vastly different way. This is really the only kind of "gifted" ADHD you mentioned above. These folks don't stop, they can't stop, and almost always, they are extroverted. My friend's cousin has hyperactive ADHD and he is an absolute magnet for women.. a complete and utter opposite of one like me.

Bronson99 said: ↑

There's another type--the predominantly hyperactive--which, while it shares many similarities, it expresses itself in a vastly different way. This is really the only kind of "gifted" ADHD you mentioned above. These folks don't stop, they can't stop, and almost always, they are extroverted. My friend's cousin has hyperactive ADHD and he is an absolute magnet for women.. a complete and utter opposite of one like me.

I worked for a woman like this before. She simply could not stop and she was extremely extrovert. She barely slept, she barely ate, but she ran a successful business for years.

She even told me once that she cannot stop herself and relax to which I replied that I CANNOT relate to that.

S_Spartan said: ↑

I worked for a woman like this before. She simply could not stop and she was extremely extrovert. She barely slept, she barely ate, but she ran a successful business for years.

She even told me once that she cannot stop herself and relax to which I replied that I CANNOT relate to that.

The only thing I want to do is relax, because every last thing in life--including the things I like to do--wears me out. My breaks have their own breaks, etc. Productivity in any dose greater than a teaspoon, makes me a stressed out and terrible person.

What did I do to deserve the ineptitude I got, all across the board? You tell me.

Bronson99 said: ↑

Maybe I'm wrong, but have I called your own bluff?

Could you be more specific?

Bronson99 said: ↑

Well, for me, it's a terrible curse. I can't get myself to do anything that's boring or doesn't have some tangible reward. Can't get through a novel with anything more than slight complexity, in less than 3 months. Often enough, I can hardly even motivate myself to do things I *like* to do.

So, my executive dysfunction is extreme, and my energy level is low. That's the inattentive type for you.

There's another type--the predominantly hyperactive--which, while it shares many similarities, it expresses itself in a vastly different way. This is really the only kind of "gifted" ADHD you mentioned above. These folks don't stop, they can't stop, and almost always, they are extroverted. My friend's cousin has hyperactive ADHD and he is an absolute magnet for women.. a complete and utter opposite of one like me.

I tried Adderall last month. Great initial reaction- focused, sociable, more confident. By the third week, I was having suicidal thoughts. I realized I didn't have to have a diagnosis of ADD to explain that I was, more accurately, a socially anxious INFJ with Type B tendencies (and a Sagittarius lol). My low motivation, low energy and poor focus was reassigned to common signs of depression more so than a cognitive disorder or executive impairment. Basically, I'm more functional when I'm not fixated on something negative and I'm starting to reconsider ADD as a symptom of my problems rather than as the problem itself.

iheart said: ↑

I tried Adderall last month. Great initial reaction- focused, sociable, more confident. By the third week, I was having suicidal thoughts. I realized I didn't have to have a diagnosis of ADD to explain that I was, more accurately, a socially anxious INFJ with Type B tendencies (and a Sagittarius lol). My low motivation, low energy and poor focus was reassigned to common signs of depression more so than a cognitive disorder or executive impairment. Basically, I'm more functional when I'm not fixated on something negative and I'm starting to reconsider ADD as a symptom of my problems rather than as the problem itself.

Hmm, I don't really know (or care much, no offense) about the personality types, Enneagram, that kind of stuff.

The way you can figure out if you have *genuine* ADD (3 types: inattentive, hyperactive, combined) is look back to your childhood. Did you have trouble getting things done in school.. much slower than the rest.. terrible daydreamer.. impulsive and fidgety? I don't know about your case, but I know that it's 100% true for me. I was not depressed as a youth, and I've always had these symptoms. I don't remember a day when I was working or operating at a "normal" pace.. I was just off in the clouds. It doesn't destroy you in childhood, though.. so I was undiscovered until adulthood, when it quite literally obliterates you. What was once, say, a "5 year developmental lag" becomes a 10-15 year lag. This is why it's no good to have parents, like I did, who wanted to believe that I was "just like everyone else," etc.

You mention Adderall didn't work for you (except in the beginning.) It doesn't for me either, because of my extreme sensitivity to stimulants. But being sensitive to stimulants.. which means you get the effects of a high dose, at a low dose (euphoria, mania, paranoia, compulsive depressive thoughts).. doesn't mean you don't have ADD. I've done a lot of reading that confirms this.

I've been trying recently to find a "mild" ADD med that will work for me.. it's really complicated though, because of my sensitivity and other health issues. But it's at the point, now, where if I don't find some artificial stimulus to get me going.. well, I'll just be a lost cause, indefinitely.

iheart said: ↑

Could you be more specific?

I was probably off-target on that. I thought you contradicted your earlier statement when you seemed to indicate an appreciation for the shy SA type guy, when you mentioned your anecdote about dealing with "alphas", etc.

iheart said: ↑

I'm always curious to know more of what it's like for guys with SA. Of course, to be a male with confidence and financial deficits in present-day culture is brutal. But I think it's improving with the recent attention given to personality types and introversion vs. extroversion. I see that shy males are still struggling, but more often they're seen as "sensitive" and pensive.

Dating for a shy man is truly truly horrible. It kills your self esteem and is just terrible. It is this way because of the dynamics of dating, where men are supposed to pursue and chase, which is obviously very hard for someone who's not the most extroverted or confident.

Bronson99 said: ↑

It's interesting for me that your impression is opposite to the one I have!

I'm with Bronson..from everything I've experienced myself and heard/read what others with SA go through, women do not generally go after or feel attracted to men with SA..the older the man is, the less attractiveSA makes them look...in junior high a cute boy with SA might do ok with girls as they might find it cute or whatever but once high school and adulthood hit, women want confident, secure guys..this doesn't mean they want bragging ****s, just guys who have confidence..in my personal experience when my SAflares up, women don't even notice me or completely overlook me but when I'm able to put on a confident, social persona, women are just drawn to that..it's like a night and day difference...

In general, a man who had not had at least one or two relationships by 30-35 carries a certain social stigma. People and potential partners will wonder why he has not and make all sorts of snap judgements. It's very unfair, but its there. It's a similar sort of stigma to the one with a woman who is promiscuous, she is viewed as a ****. We all have to deal with tired gender stereotypes and stigmas sadly.

Also Reddit blows. Often very judge people I know I'm sorry. Tried to talk about social anxiety experiences among women and had some incredibly judgmental bitter folks come in and wreck it all. Not all hope is lost though and no you aren't doomed forever, you will find people that will understand your situation and as long as you have the desire to focus on your own life and improve you're in a good position.