Alpha males

[Rainman]

A work collegue of mine is really irritating me and making me cringe at everything he does or say. I feel I am not being fair to him through, that perhaps I am just jealous of him. He hasn't said anything wrong to me, but it's just his behaviour that really gets to me.

He's what you could call an alphamale archtype. He is the centre of attention, almost everybody likes him and allow him to take charge and he leads.

Why do I not like this guy, surely I want to be more like this archetype?

Here is why:

When he speaks, he speaks loud enough that everybody can hear him in the room. When his conversation partner is sitting right next to him.

When he talks to you, he talks to you as if he's your leader and is more adult than you.

When he walks, he walks fast and you can even hear his footsteps, which are almost as loud as he is.

When you are having a conversation with somebody, he can easily interrupt it or join it and suddenly it is about him.

When he sits, he takes up as much space as possible and sits down very aggressively.

He will walk around the room and start conversations with anybody he wants, no matter what they are doing.

Everything he does is important. He yawns and it's an event.

He practices social exclusion i.e., he has drawn away from you possible friends, because he wants to keep them to himself. You find people you talked to earlier, no longer talk to you, instead talk to him al the time.

Does this kind of person sound similar to you? Is this an example of a true confident person? Do you know similar people like this?

 

[Richey]

oh i know the type, at my work everyone is loud but there was one guy that every girl wants to go out with, he is tall and blonde and loud and the girls crave his attention and he is loud and confident but at the same time it seems fake to me like its an act to for attention and while most people warm to that it can be hard for the more introverted type to deal with, this guy also talks loud as if hes your leader and so every time he talks to me like as you described i dont look into his eyes, i just respond but focus my attention on what im doing and hes starting to get me i think; when he is more down to earth i give him my full attention but when he gets all loud its so obvious that hes trying to impress that it really gets to me however most of the girls love it when he's like that because they want someone who is confident, not everyone is like that but most girls want a guy who can take control and express themselves, and gets on with everyone, of course thats not always the case it depends on the personality as well, the human psyche is such a complex puzzle, also you have to remember that personalities are developed from our environments, i know that this guy at my work grew up in a family with positive role models as parents who were funny! they were all heavily into sports and they are just a good looking bunch of people as well; i know that i grew up in a family that lacked affection and my school years weren't so rosie! so that can certainly play a part in how we act socially with others; i just have to work on being as down to earth and honest as i can be and maybe i need to lighten up more around people but this guy you described sounds like he craves too much for attention and tries too hard for approval.

 

[Clash]

A work collegue of mine is really irritating me and making me cringe at everything he does or say. I feel I am not being fair to him through, that perhaps I am just jealous of him. He hasn't said anything wrong to me, but it's just his behaviour that really gets to me.

He's what you could call an alphamale archtype. He is the centre of attention, almost everybody likes him and allow him to take charge and he leads.

Why do I not like this guy, surely I want to be more like this archetype?

Here is why:

When he speaks, he speaks loud enough that everybody can hear him in the room. When his conversation partner is sitting right next to him.

When he talks to you, he talks to you as if he's your leader and is more adult than you.

When he walks, he walks fast and you can even hear his footsteps, which are almost as loud as he is.

When you are having a conversation with somebody, he can easily interrupt it or join it and suddenly it is about him.

When he sits, he takes up as much space as possible and sits down very aggressively.

He will walk around the room and start conversations with anybody he wants, no matter what they are doing.

Everything he does is important. He yawns and it's an event.

He practices social exclusion i.e., he has drawn away from you possible friends, because he wants to keep them to himself. You find people you talked to earlier, no longer talk to you, instead talk to him al the time.

Does this kind of person sound similar to you? Is this an example of a true confident person? Do you know similar people like this?

"The one upper".

yeah this guy sounds like the aggressive type. People probably like him because they think he is a 'hard worker.' But that's just a bullshit way of saying he's more socialy outgoing. You should know you don't get anywhere in a job without some charisma. But not to say this guy isn't what every confident person acts like. You might have to live with it.

 

[Rainman]

and he is loud and confident but at the same time it seems fake to me like its an act to for attention

but this guy you described sounds like he craves too much for attention and tries too hard for approval.

These are my thoughts exactly. I think he is fake as well, attention-seeking and wants approval. He also has more positive qualities such as goal-seeking.

Whatever he's doing though is working. We started work at the same time, and he's already on the top floor so to speak, he's even popular with the management.

But that is also because he's made many efforts to impress them. I've also noted how he seems to purposefully go and stand around those in charge or the more popular members of staff and tries to impress them.

He's not what I would describe as good looking, but what appears to others as confidence makes him seem more attractive than he is.

 

[Jack-B]

Rainman,

See how little freedom this brings. It is clear to you that this person is not in control. So why be upset with him.

He is being controlled by many negative thoughts which lead him to act innappropriately to others. This illuminates the fact that he has no peace and is unhappy in his search for what true happiness is.

What you should be concerned about is your own reactions to him.
What can you learn from this? What sort of mind do you want to generate?
All you see is the fault of his own negative thoughts, like a child being controlled by their lack of understanding. Appearances are deceptive, maybe he 'acts' this way beacause he is so afraid of the rest of you and what you think of him that he has to play this game he has created himself.

In the mean time you are creating unahappiness for yourself. Surely the appropriate response is one of compassion for him.

Jack

 

[Rainman]

In the mean time you are creating unahappiness for yourself. Surely the appropriate response is one of compassion for him.

Jack

Yeah I know, that is what I should be doing. It's just an instinstive response to the type of person he is. What gets to me though, how this type can get all the success. I have not accepted him as my leader, but when most of the others have, it's the majority consensus that matters.

It is very frustrating when talking with somebody, how he can just draw them away and dominate the conversation at his own whims and desires.

I think it's just an innate response we have to attention seekers or show-offs. I wonder though, if it jealously. I am not usually a jealous person, but my resent for guy, despite him saying nothing wrong to me, could perhaps be that.

 

[Quixote]

I read the previous posts and it seems that all of you are trying to conceal reality from yourselves, I mean I understand it perfectly, I do it too sometimes, but there is no point in pretending that self confident people do not exist, or they are unhappy and "just pretend", and with a hint that they are morally not as good as we are.

If that guy is successfull both socially and at work it is because he has some qualities that most of us lack, it is so clear. You could find a million things that are fake or made up in his behaviour, but that is true of any human being I think, we all learn our behaviour during the course of life, and nobody is 100% spontaneous in everything that he does.

Since the guy has these qualities, he evidently tries to make the best use of them, and hence the type of behaviours you describe. Everyone desires to succed in life, don't you after all? Sometimes this may involve a bit of assertiveness towards others, and especially guys tend to do it all the time in the presence of girls (in very subtle ways sometimes). As the title of this thread says, that guy is just playing the part the alpha male plays among apes. Quite natural and not much can be done about it. However, knowing this perhaps will help you look on his behaviour with a smile :wink:

 

[Rainman]

As the title of this thread says, that guy is just playing the part the alpha male plays among apes. Quite natural and not much can be done about it. However, knowing this perhaps will help you look on his behaviour with a smile

That is it though; he is playing the role of the alpha male among apes. We are not apes, we are human beings. To me it does not come across as confidence, it comes across as fake.

He appears to me as self-centered, not really interested in others beyond winning them over to further his power.

I feel a lot of arrogance when I see him. I have met other confident people before, and I don't feel the same from them. But it's different with this guy. Everything this guy does is more "adult" than you and he's secure in knowing that if he ignores somebody, they will come to him anyway.

I don't think confidence is suppose to feel like that. It's suppose to feel positive and warm. I've met confident people before, it is a positive thing. In the case of this guy, it feels cold, calculating, manipulative and arrogant. I think if you put this guy among real confident people, he would not have as much influence anymore.

 

[Quixote]

As the title of this thread says, that guy is just playing the part the alpha male plays among apes. Quite natural and not much can be done about it. However, knowing this perhaps will help you look on his behaviour with a smile

That is it though; he is playing the role of the alpha male among apes. We are not apes, we are human beings. To me it does not come across as confidence, it comes across as fake.

He appears to me as self-centered, not really interested in others beyond winning them over to further his power.

I feel a lot of arrogance when I see him. I have met other confident people before, and I don't feel the same from them. But it's different with this guy. Everything this guy does is more "adult" than you and he's secure in knowing that if he ignores somebody, they will come to him anyway.

I don't think confidence is suppose to feel like that. It's suppose to feel positive and warm. I've met confident people before, it is a positive thing. In the case of this guy, it feels cold, calculating, manipulative and arrogant. I think if you put this guy among real confident people, he would not have as much influence anymore.

Yes I can see what you mean, in fact many confident people tend to be nice ones as well. They lead through consensus, not through imposition and assertiveness. But some are like this unfortunately, I know the type, and I wouldn't be sure that it is a fake, if it is then it is so well done that it is worth learning for us perhaps... :wink:

As for their way of dealing with human relations, it would be interesting to see how these kind of people manage their friendships, since they are so unable or unwilling to emphatize with most people. They might even turn out to be rather lonely people, maybe some are on this site (quite unlikely, indeed... )

Don't worry about feeling angry towards him, it's perfectly normal as well. What you can do, if your anger becomes too much, is to treat him equally badly as he does with others. I can manage that when I am angry, but only as long as anger lasts, once it's over I cannot really cope with confrontation, I don't know how it is for you. Otherwise just try to change your attitude, maybe you see him in such a negative light that you keep seeing what confirms your negative view.
I once met a guy a bit like this and I thought he was detestable, but in the end we became almost friends.
Good luck with everything

 

[Rainman]

I wouldn't be sure that it is a fake, if it is then it is so well done that it is worth learning for us perhaps... :wink:

That he is succesfull, does not mean that he is not being fake.

As for their way of dealing with human relations, it would be interesting to see how these kind of people manage their friendships, since they are so unable or unwilling to emphatize with most people. They might even turn out to be rather lonely people, maybe some are on this site (quite unlikely, indeed... )

I would be really interested to see how he interacts with friends. The other day I overheard him talking to his friend on his phone, again he was talking loud enough that everybody could hear him and his friend's voice(it was on loudspeaker) but it seemed as if there was a change in his persona. He then made a comment that sounded it was to impress us all and then in an apologetic tone excused his comment from his friend.

On the first day, I noticed he was sitting to the side from everybody else and did not look confident. I was the first to make conversation with him. I think later he realised, that the lack of competition for topdog, that he effortessly made his way to leader of the group and his attitude seemed to change.

Don't worry about feeling angry towards him, it's perfectly normal as well. What you can do, if your anger becomes too much, is to treat him equally badly as he does with others.

Oh, you have got the wrong impression. I am not angry with him. There is nothing to be angry about this, he's done nothing wrong to me. I just don't particularly like him..

I think he does understand that I don't particularly enjoy his company and I do not allow him to intidimate me. I raise my voice when I talk to him, and refuse to participate in any conversation with him or that involves him.

Otherwise just try to change your attitude, maybe you see him in such a negative light that you keep seeing what confirms your negative view.

Perhaps this is the case, or perhaps he really is what I think he is. I don't know for sure. I am sure many of us come across people like this all the time. I would be interested in your insights and experiences with people like this.

 

[exuser01]

"The one upper".

yeah this guy sounds like the aggressive type. People probably like him because they think he is a 'hard worker.' But that's just a bullshit way of saying he's more socialy outgoing. You should know you don't get anywhere in a job without some charisma. But not to say this guy isn't what every confident person acts like. You might have to live with it.

I don't agree with the terminology, but you are so right on the charisma thing. Those guys are all substance and no style. What makes human beings unique is their personality. And if females go for him it's because they're not in love with him but what hes accomplished which is not the same.

 

[Horatio]

As the title of this thread says, that guy is just playing the part the alpha male plays among apes. Quite natural and not much can be done about it. However, knowing this perhaps will help you look on his behaviour with a smile :wink:

with that in mind then perhaps the appropriate way to deal with such guys is to charge at them on all fours, run them into the ground, tear off their scrotum with your hands, bite their face and leave them humiliated in the dirt while the females come flocking after witnessing your brutallity...

thats what apes do, quite natural really

I know the sort of guy you speak of Rainman, and unfortunately us guys with SP will always be their number one target. he would treat you and I in a much less inferior manner than anyone else he meets, simply because our SP makes us a weak and easier means for him to assert his dominance

what I hate about it the most is the fact that girls flock to such characters, its nature at work I guess. treat others like shit and the girls are impressed

fucking typical really

 

[Rainman]

He sounds the kind of man i would run a mile from to be honest on a personal view.....
A lady prefers a gentleman you know :wink:

I wouldn't say he isn't a gentleman to the ladies. He knows what to say and how to say it them, and he takes lead as an alphamale would. I think I am making him sound too bad here. He really isn't all that bad.

I just think he's self-centered, that's all and his interest in people is to further this power base. I don't think he has a genuine interest in others, more so that he manipulates them. That is what alphamales do.

This has probably something to do with his belief system and values in life. As he's an atheist, and believes in evolution and surivival, he probably thinks life is about competing with others for the pleasures of life and making it to the top, being the alphamale.

A lot of his conversations seem to be about booze, clubbing. He sounds like a typical lad at the pub and talks like one.

 

[cLavain]

This has probably something to do with his belief system and values in life. As he's an atheist, and believes in evolution and surivival, he probably thinks life is about competing with others for the pleasures of life and making it to the top, being the alphamale.

What is it about Christians and this absolute belief in their own moral superiority? :roll:

Well, I'm an atheist, and I'm much more like you than this guy (based on your description). How do figure that into your little theory about the evil nonbelievers?

Oh, and you sure come across as someone who sees this guy as a competitor...

 

[Rainman]

This has probably something to do with his belief system and values in life. As he's an atheist, and believes in evolution and surivival, he probably thinks life is about competing with others for the pleasures of life and making it to the top, being the alphamale.

What is it about Christians and this absolute belief in their own moral superiority? :roll:

No offense to you, cLavin, it's not like I was saying atheism is wrong. You can have atheists who are humanists. But then there are some atheists who believe in survival, the eat, drink and be merry crowd and cannot care less about others. It's all about them.

It would make sense as well, if you do not believe there is higher power or soul, then you cease searching for deeper things in life, and just live your life to get the basic pleasures of wordly life without worrying about morals and spirituality.

I am not saying this applies to all atheists though.

I am not a competitor to this guy. I don't have any intention of being "alpha" I would like to be confident yes, but I have no desire to dominate others/

 

[newshyguy]

12

He sounds the kind of man i would run a mile from to be honest on a personal view.....
A lady prefers a gentleman you know :wink:

LOL

thanx for the tip :wink:

 

[cLavain]

It would make sense as well, if you do not believe there is higher power or soul, then you cease searching for deeper things in life, and just live your life to get the basic pleasures of wordly life without worrying about morals and spirituality.

Okay, I don't want to make this into another religious debate, but just one important point before ending it: Just because you believe in evolution, it doesn't mean you have to like it. In fact, natural selection is a cruel process! Pretty much any biologist will agree on that.

Anyway, girls will tell you that they don't like this kind of man, but most of them will go for these men time and time again. They are probably hardwired to be attracted to alpha males, which might make sense for the species but it's a real bummer for us quiet guys.

 

[Quixote]

No offense to you, cLavin, it's not like I was saying atheism is wrong. You can have atheists who are humanists. But then there are some atheists who believe in survival, the eat, drink and be merry crowd and cannot care less about others. It's all about them.

I am an atheist and I believe in evolution and natural selection. But this does not imply that I reject all moral principles: I just see them as a result of a natural drive towards cooperation that is compatible with evolution and selection (groups whose members cooperate would have much more chances of surviving as a group). All people have it in my opinion, it is embedded in our instinct and even the worst people have it to some (maybe small) degree. I think religions stem from our instinctive morality and not the other way around. But then, of course, this is debatable and this is not the right place perhaps. Finally, I personally *like* behaving in a decent way (not like a sainct or an idealist, but decent), so I will always try to do it regardless of the scientific analysis of it!

But as you say some simple minded people interpret evolutionary theory like "everyone has to fight all the others all the time". He might get better as he gets older, it usually works that way.

He sounds the kind of man i would run a mile from to be honest on a personal view.....
A lady prefers a gentleman you know :Wink:

A gentleman? You mean a guy who is dominant towards other males but still shows some attitude for cooperation and follows the main rules, right?
But rainman's colleague probably manages to look somewhat like this, even though with a prevalence of the first part, and you wouldn't run away from him, for sure.