working poor

[sabbath]

ran into this author on huffington post, the american middle class is under attack, this fascist police state is killing the golden goose

Amazon.com: The Two-Income Trap (9780465090907): Elizabeth Warren, Amelia Warren Tyagi: Books

 

[Thelema]

You're encouraged to make more money to spend on more and more stuff.

Things are getting more and more expensive and paychecks don't keep up with the rising price.

Affluenza!



Affluenza

 

[Hoth]

I'm sick of rich people (everybody calls theirself "middle class") who can afford houses and SUVs and throw away money at starbucks every morning whining about their lack of money. Especially when they use the "family" sympathy card. It's your fault you throw away your money instead of saving it for your family, don't whine to us about it. And no, your kids don't need to attend a $1000 camp or wear platinum-coated backpacks. And by the way, you chose to have kids.

Don't get me started on foreclosures. Nobody has a right to a house. If you can't afford one, rent like the rest of us.

Things are getting more and more expensive

No, they're not. Prices have actually gone down in the last year or so.

and paychecks don't keep up with the rising price.

I've been making $20K/yr since '04. By buying the same stuff, I end up spending the same amount.

The authors recommend a number of useful societal solutions to get families out of this trap, such as legally prohibiting credit card companies from charging grossly unfair interest rates

I loathe people like this. You have plenty of income, you're an idiot who spends yourself into credit card debt, and you expect laws to bail you out. Take some responsibility for your own stupid decisions. If you're a middle class family with two incomes and you're in debt, and it's not from medical bills, it's because you're a spoiled pampered brat trying to play for social status by throwing around money you don't have.

 

[Puffer]

Let me hear a stone croak,
I ain't wit being broke
I'm tired of my mother bustin ass for other folks
gettin nowhere fast
while the ho on the corna makin mo money selling ass.
I ain't wit this outfit, I gotta make some moves to by t jones some nice shit.
???? workin on som////da week
It don't even ****in make ends meet
I worked down on main st.
Dimes in my stomach cause I ain't had nuttin eat.
So how the **** am I supposed to think
when I'm in a funky sweatsuit and still bitchin to meet.
My ass is put and I booked non stop
Make the swap and go shop.
I say this and say that and every other note, I ain't wit being broke.

Chorus:
Money, OH Money
I ain't witn being broke
Got ta get my hands on some.

repeat.

Chorus: Bushwick

I was born in a cheap ass hospital
from the fifth ward, stuck right in the middle
of a rock and a hard spot, before my dad got that ass I was already counted out
what a mutha ****in pity
mama couldn't afford milk so we had to suck her titties.
every night in the kitchen I'd see, rats and roaches eaten bettan me.
there was no thanksgiving, they say I'm a fool for thanking god for living,
but being broke ain't no mutha ****in joke back in 91 shit just ain't happenin
foo.
I never had a goddamned thing christmas came and went, without a choo choo
train, in the geto, gifts get stolen or bought ain't no mutha ****in santa
claus.

 

[Thelema]

I'm sick of rich people (everybody calls theirself "middle class") who can afford houses and SUVs and throw away money at starbucks every morning whining about their lack of money. Especially when they use the "family" sympathy card. It's your fault you throw away your money instead of saving it for your family, don't whine to us about it. And no, your kids don't need to attend a $1000 camp or wear platinum-coated backpacks. And by the way, you chose to have kids.

Don't get me started on foreclosures. Nobody has a right to a house. If you can't afford one, rent like the rest of us.



No, they're not. Prices have actually gone down in the last year or so.

and paychecks don't keep up with the rising price.

I've been making $20K/yr since '04. By buying the same stuff, I end up spending the same amount.



I loathe people like this. You have plenty of income, you're an idiot who spends yourself into credit card debt, and you expect laws to bail you out. Take some responsibility for your own stupid decisions. If you're a middle class family with two incomes and you're in debt, and it's not from medical bills, it's because you're a spoiled pampered brat trying to play for social status by throwing around money you don't have.

The price of living goes up and up; a time span in the midst of a recession is not a valid demonstration of prices doing anything. And I'm not sure I agree that the cost of living has decreased this past year. I'm talking about a larger span of time where we can actually get some valid data. The price of items 5 years ago or 10 years ago or 15 years ago was less than now. We don't live our existence based on what happens from month to month or year to year, but what happens over a long span of time. Prices go up and down in the short term, but rise in the long term.

If you rent the same place, drive the same car, don't have cable, buy a pair of shoes twice a decade; the World seems like a cheap place, but it isn't. Not everyone can live such a regular boring existence. People have families to raise and want to do things that bring them enjoyment and cost money.

You're still making the same minimum wage as you were 5 years ago. Now imagine if you wanted to some day make more than that, you might have to get yourself educated. Maybe you meet a girl and you want to start a family and your crappy apartment doesn't cut it. Maybe you need more than an old clunker to get you back and forth. Maybe that clunker of yours breaks down and you suddenly need a new car to get to work. There are many situations where you might temporarily get some debt and guess what, maybe at the same time you lose your job. What then? Suddenly Mr. Callous know-it-all is in the same position as many other people. It isn't such a simple World where you can point at people and yell at them and call them stupid.

There is an actual social class called the working poor and it's a very descriptive term-they work and they're poor. A mother that works at Mcdonalds and lives in a trailer to put her child through school is a description of a working poor person. The woman can barely afford to live, but doesn't spend money on anything but the essentials; her situation doesn't allow her to sit under a rock and proclaim that life is cheap as long as you don't spend money on SUVs.

 

[this_portrait]

There is an actual social class called the working poor and it's a very descriptive term-they work and they're poor. A mother that works at Mcdonalds and lives in a trailer to put her child through school is a description of a working poor person. The woman can barely afford to live, but doesn't spend money on anything but the essentials; her situation doesn't allow her to sit under a rock and proclaim that life is cheap as long as you don't spend money on SUVs.

My mom was like that with me. Working a crappy low-income job in a bad area of our city and having us live in a shabby apartment in a shitty area just to send me to a private school. Not many working-class parents do that for their kids.

Although I do agree with Hoth when it comes to people wanting to 'live like they're rich' even though they really don't have the money to live like that. If you make over $100K a year, fine. Go ahead and buy the fancy cars and houses and little luxuries that everyone else is getting. If you're only making, say, about $50K a year, well, you may be able to afford some of those luxuries, but not all of them.

And as for credit cards, if you seriously charge so much on one of those things that you can't pay it off, then you're an idiot. Credit cards are one of the biggest rip-offs ever, and they're not something to be taken lightly. You have to be careful with them. Card companies try to rip people off all the time, and it's very easy for someone to steal your card information when you're not careful. I would know; I had the same thing almost happen to me. So it's hard for me to feel sympathy for someone who carelessly charges too much on his/her credit card and doesn't keep up with the payments.

I'm not even going to go into the cons of starting a family. I think those cons are plain obvious.

 

[Hoth]

Now imagine if you wanted to some day make more than that, you might have to get yourself educated.

I'm a professional software developer and I have a B.A. in philosophy. I do what I do because I like doing it. Maybe if I studied to become an accountant I could live a miserable life and buy a hummer, but I prefer to work for myself doing what I want to do.

If you consider my life "boring" and want to be a pimp with lots of bling or something, have fun. But don't whine to me about how terribly impoverished you are, and you sure as hell shouldn't expect any sympathy or bailout from me when your extravagent lifestyle and lack of self-control puts you in debt.

your crappy apartment doesn't cut it.

It's a very comfortable place in a fantastic, beautiful little town. Summer noise can be annoying, but not living in heaven isn't the same as being a poor suffering oppressed "under attack" person.

Maybe you need more than an old clunker to get you back and forth.

Nobody requires a car. A car is a luxury. I do enjoy that luxury. And it's got less than 50K miles on it, and hasn't stranded me anywhere yet, so I wouldn't call it a clunker. (My old one was, admittedly, but I upgraded.)

There are many situations where you might temporarily get some debt and guess what, maybe at the same time you lose your job. What then?

Then you're not the people the thread or the book is about, since it clearly states it's about two income middle class famlies. However, as far as "what then", you sell all your valuable property -- you don't ask taxpayers to pay your $5000/month mortgage so you can keep your mansion.

There is an actual social class called the working poor and it's a very descriptive term-they work and they're poor.

You've completely stopped attempting to stay on topic, and you seem to just hope I won't notice that your only good points are when you're talking about completely different people than the thread is about -- in fact, you're talking about the very people who I've been saying deserve the sympathy, the actual poor, not the middle class. So in your attempt at slight of hand your points are right but your logic is screwed up -- your points work against your argument.

 

[Cynic]

I loathe people like this. You have plenty of income, you're an idiot who spends yourself into credit card debt, and you expect laws to bail you out.

So are you happy with your taxes being used to bail out the banks?

 

[Thelema]

I'm a professional software developer and I have a B.A. in philosophy. I do what I do because I like doing it. Maybe if I studied to become an accountant I could live a miserable life and buy a hummer, but I prefer to work for myself doing what I want to do.

If you consider my life "boring" and want to be a pimp with lots of bling or something, have fun. But don't whine to me about how terribly impoverished you are, and you sure as hell shouldn't expect any sympathy or bailout from me when your extravagent lifestyle and lack of self-control puts you in debt.

your crappy apartment doesn't cut it.

It's a very comfortable place in a fantastic, beautiful little town. Summer noise can be annoying, but not living in heaven isn't the same as being a poor suffering oppressed "under attack" person.

Maybe you need more than an old clunker to get you back and forth.

Nobody requires a car. A car is a luxury. I do enjoy that luxury. And it's got less than 50K miles on it, and hasn't stranded me anywhere yet, so I wouldn't call it a clunker. (My old one was, admittedly, but I upgraded.)

There are many situations where you might temporarily get some debt and guess what, maybe at the same time you lose your job. What then?

Then you're not the people the thread or the book is about, since it clearly states it's about two income middle class famlies. However, as far as "what then", you sell all your valuable property -- you don't ask taxpayers to pay your $5000/month mortgage so you can keep your mansion.

There is an actual social class called the working poor and it's a very descriptive term-they work and they're poor.

You've completely stopped attempting to stay on topic, and you seem to just hope I won't notice that your only good points are when you're talking about completely different people than the thread is about -- in fact, you're talking about the very people who I've been saying deserve the sympathy, the actual poor, not the middle class. So in your attempt at slight of hand your points are right but your logic is screwed up -- your points work against your argument.

You have a degree in philosophy? You should get your money back because it didn't do you any good. Let's get back on topic.

The rate of inflation the past 11 years

Historical Inflation data from 1914 to the present

The pay hasn't kept up with the cost

"According to the US Census Bureau, the median is "considerably lower than the average, and provides a more accurate representation.""

Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Looking at the full cycle across economic peak years—a more useful measure in evaluating economic performance—reveals that household income was no higher in 2007 than in 2000, the previous peak. Given rising joblessness and declining real wages, next year’s numbers will certainly be worse.

Comparisons between 2000 and 2007 reveal:

* Median income fell further for working-age households than for all households because job and wage growth was particularly weak in the 2000s relative to past cycles (see Figure 2)."

Median income rose as did poverty in 2007; 2000s have been extremely weak for living standards of most households

Oh, no, I guess your broad brush finger pointing doesn't stack up reality : "Even more surprising to Warren were the causes of this financial breakdown, which she assumed would implicate the battered culprit of overconsumption of luxury goods. "I thought I would write a story about too many trips to the mall, too many $200 sneakers, too many Gameboys," says Warren.

But stacks of government data on consumer spending, which she combed through as a Radcliffe Institute Fellow in 2002, proved her hunch wrong. Compared with a generation ago, she found, today's middle-class families earn about 75 percent more (all figures are adjusted for inflation), thanks in large part to Mom's entrance into the work force. But after shelling out for four fixed expenses - mortgage, health insurance, child care or education, and car payments - today's median-income family has less left over, in inflation-adjusted dollars, than the single-income family of the 1970s.

"Families are not going broke over lattes," Warren quips. "Families are going broke over mortgages."

Harvard Gazette: Middle-class income doesn't buy middle-class lifestyle

Present your evidence that the prices of goods aren't going up and that the income of middle class people is keeping up with the price increases that you don't think exist; excluding the recession.