Why the F*** does nothing work!!!!

blue

Well-known member
IM 27 and have tried everything,
Ive got books on meditation, spent hundreds of pounds on so called cures and force myself to think possitively every damn day and Im still terrified of every thing!!!! ( well not quite everything...)
And why does every psycologist think that social phobia is cured by not avoiding situations!!! I dont avoid situations and i always make a fool of myself and it NEVER HELPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
 

ThatOneGirl

Member
im the same way ive tried evrything w/ no luck and im getting 2 where i cant function in public at all and not avoiding does nothing ppl say u grow out of SA, i cant image doing that but im hopeing i do- and soon.
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
Hi Blue,

At least you are very brave -the fact that you face all situations. I also don't htink that this is always the right thing to do -and notice that if I hadn't taken time out and stopped working, that I may continued to feel as awful as I was feeling when I was working ...which was the worst I've ever felt.

I don't want to throw just another cure at you. BUt I figure that someone who never gives up like you is bound to have a great reward. (For one thing, you may be becoming an expert on social anxiety, and you could challenge what some psychiatrists say.)
...well, here is just another form of therapy that you could decide to add to your list:- www.mindfulrecovery.com

I'm sorry that life is this hard for you. For me it is hard also. There are unlucky people who struggle for large periods of their lives. However, some of these same people find their answer after so long and go on to help many others. -I know of at least 3 that I can name. And one, who I know more, is a truly remarkable individual. He has a great amount of empathy and wisdom -and is well loved by people.

One question is that: are you focussing too strongly on your problem? -because if so, I think this would hamper your solving it. And if so, you could focus on other things like what you do well and easily.
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
Hi Blue,

There are a few other things I wanted to ask you....

Can you name thoughts, attitudes and coping strategies that are obstacles to your freedom from disordered anxiety?
In Cesar Bujosa's Treatment section at www.mindfulrecovery.com,
he has a particular section devoted to recognising what mode of coping actually reinforce and maintain our problems. Being conciously aware of these allows us to choose the better coping method. Mindfulness and mindfulness meditation are how we can become concious of these poor coping strategies that we have naturally in place and it is also the way by which we can choose the better alternative.

By this I mean, that when we can observe when we feel the impulse to choose such a poor choice for dealing with our anxiety, this is when we are at the point when we are able to choose the better response.
...In other words, identifying and being able to identify in the moment, what our poor coping methods are is a considerable part of being cured.
This is part of the higher conscious awareness that we desire to develop.

Also, in Cesar Bujosa's Treatment plan he is using a combination of more stabilising calming meditation (concentration on the breath is what he uses, but you may be familiar from your reading on other such kinds of stabilising, simple meditations; and he also uses Mindfulness for stabilising and assimilating intense and/or compulsive feelings) but then he also uses a more analytical -or creative?- style of meditation, whereby the person actually brings forth painful experiences or imagined scenarios and feels themselves in these, and then Mindfulness is used again to re-introduce a sense of Acceptance and calm to these otherwise quite painful experiences.

And I think that one reason for using this method (appart from bringing acceptance and calm to troubling situations and increasing our tolerance) is so that we can get a more specific understanding of our particular problems. That is, that he uses stabilising and calming styles of meditation with more analytical kinds -my hunch is that this lets us focus on just what is our problem, but when we focus on the trouble we keep going back to being mindful so that we do not get drawn-into the problem and overwhelmed again.
This is my intuitive guess. I am very much still learning about meditation and how our mind works.

But my question to you is just whether you can name what attitudes, thoughts and ways by which you still cope with anxiety and which you recognise as being strategies that actually maintain your high anxiety -ie: what Cesar calls "maladaptive coping methods"
...he has a whole section on "maladaptive coping methods" and obviously considers the ability to be aware of these to be a considerable part of being cured of anxiety problems.
I figure that being able to recognise these ways we naturally react to combat our anxious feelings is simply part of what being conscious and aware means.

Are you familiar with Jung's belief that: "Whoever maintains the friction between polar opposites (of any given conflict) achieves the third opinion (higher consciousness)....?
So, we have our highly sensitive responses to our environment, and we also have our attempts at supressing and controlling these responses -these are judgments of and ways of controlling the first initial reaction. Yet, this is our vicious circle. And according to Jung, we are not to be in the vicious circle, but are to see the CIRCLE and become it. To become increasingly aware of both sides, of both ways in which we respond -really one is the mirror version of the other. And by seeing/being aware of both we lessen the extent to which we react one way and then the other, and instead 'make the two into one', ie -'maintain the friction between polar opposites for as long as possible'.

Well, hopefully I have actually told you some thing that you didn't already know! :wink: ...either way: Good luck and don't give up, just look for another way of solving things, another way of looking at things.
 

blue

Well-known member
Thanx for your replies :)

You know i studied psychology at college and I actually do find it very interesting.....though i do find it really difficult to believe that a person can have a cure for something that they have never suffered from!

I know why i feel the way i do,i just dont know how to stop it :(
I think it is more an obsessive dissorder than a phobia.

I can feel relaxed in a social situation and then my thoughts start to think back to pannic and i start to feel paranoid and well it just goes painfully wrong from there!

I think im quite complicated and suffer depression and general aniety on top of social phobia i also had a really traumatic event in my mid teens when your just developing your social confidence wich didnt help :roll:
so maybe thats why nothing works im just too much of a lost cause :lol:

I have a really good Zen story that i heard,its about not carrying burdens and it really helped me to put things behind me even if they appear to be negetive its no use hanging on to the memory! :wink:
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
Hi Blue,

I'm still going-on about this Mindfulness stuff here. It is just that I really feel that it is helpful to me.

I don't go out much and so it is not easy to tell how well it is working. I am still a bit apprehensive about facing the world (however, I believe that his is completely understandable considering how difficult my last two experiences were in the workforce -these were harrowing experiences for me and I have been taking my time out just to get some peace of mind)

But back to what I want to say to you... I have been using Mindfulness for my problems. Now, are you aware that some psychiatrists are saying that Mindfulness is helpful when CBT is not; and that CBT can in fact exasperate anxiety conditions-? That Mindfulness is especially helpful when 'ruminating' is more habitual for a person, and likewise in cases where a person has suffered more bouts of either depression or anxiety. In other words, where the unhelpful thinking patterns are more entrenched Mindfulness is better than CBT and CBT can even make a problem worse.

This is perhaps not unlike saying that Mindfulness helps for impulsive and/or compulsive emotions and thoughts. In other words, it is a better strategy -at least in terms of giving a basic foundation upon which to then tackle anxiety. first of all it gives basic peace of mind. It stills the mind. I have heard the following analogy for Mindfulness and other stabilising kinds of meditation... 'that it is like letting the mud in a glass of water settle, and then the water is clearer; but try to think or do anthing about a problem without having done this first, and the water is stirred-up, becomind muddy again'.

...So if you find that emotions and thoughts are too entrenched, unconcious, and impulsive/compulsive -or as you put it, you believe that there is an obsessive compulsive aspect to your condition- then I really believe that Mindfulness will help you get past this hurdle. And I also think that without Mindfulness, things will be harder than they need to be.

Now, I just wanted to say to you that -whilst it is early days for me still- nonetheless, even the last few days, during which I have been doing more social things (it has been my Birthday for one, and it has also been Easter so I have been going to church and a few celebrations) I have found that I experience much less anxious feelings and inner tension. Even if at first, I experience a rush of dread and acute self-consciousness, my new Mindful approach (that I have been adopting and making a part of my thinking more through both Mindfulness Meditation and an overall approach in general) seems to make it so that these strong fearful feelings I am able to get under control -with some effort yes, however, the effort is minimal by comparison to the harrowing experience of feeling emotionally out of control.

In fact, practising a Mindful outlook is not such an effort, it is more that I am required to remember to think in such a way.

But I tell you something -when I do remember to think in this way, the focus stops being my fears and already because of this, my fears have become smaller. And that is the beauty of mindfulness -it takes the focus off the fear and puts value instead on accepting everything. That there is nothing I need to worry about or hide or try to avoid. And if I make a mistake -this is not a problem from the perspective of Mindfulness, which is accepting of everything.

I think that with me and probably with all of us phobia sufferers, that despite how well we realise our fears are irrational that we nonethelss are under their spell. That we are stuck within a largely unconcious judgement of our emotions. I believe that we are highly sensitive creatures and that this sensitivity makes us vulnerable to experiencing a high degree of pain and/or disorientation (because we pick-up on so much of what is around us) and the natural accompanying resonse to this high sensitivity to pain and/or stimulus in general is that we try to stop such feelings.
You will know from your reading in psychology that we require to cease judging our sensitivity and also our anxiety -and that the more that we judge and try to stop such reactions that the more entrenched we are in such feelings: we get stuck within a vicious circle of anxiety. And so, what began as a high sensitivity quickly or easily slipped into an anxiety disorder.

Well, I think that it is hard for us to convince ourselves to no-longer judge our sensitivity -just as our reactions to things register as some form of pain and high discomfort. ...But here is where Mindfulness helps, I believe- it sets a whole new perception from the outset. We allow our emotions regardles of how overreactive or out-of-control we fear they may be and the only object of our concentration is upon being Mindful it self.
This gets us away from focussing on our fears and our negative reactions. They say that the mind can only focus truly on positive things and that negative things, because they involve an avoidance of something, are of no help to a person.

Well, in any case, I think that Mindfulness focusses on the process of being calm and secure whilst many other strategies including those that we instinctively and naturally do when we are anxious, have as their focus the absence of calm and security because such things are in fact disguised to seem a more solid form of security -like for example how I have a need for predictable situations which I feel more able to control and somehow imagine that unfamiliar persons or situations are fraught with danger in; this is really quite a superficial assessment of people as my experience in truth is that most people in general are reasonably nice and pleasant and that there isn't really that much to fear from them.

...we are chasing something and the more we chase it the more it eludes us... Whereas with Mindfulness, I belive that we are offered the chance and the direction to focus on 'no-thing' ...that is, to create security for ourselves from scratch as opposed to searching desparately for it all the while never finding it. We look for something where it does not exist. And if we could get out of such a trap we could see that some security does exist for us, but that we need to quit needing so much first.
Then, when we can do this -when we can 'go with the flow'- nature takes care of the rest

So I am finding using Mindfulness to be helping me in anxious situations. It allows me to make mistakes and makes it so that I have no fear of mistakes because now my focus, my values, are different -they are focussed on my accepting every thought and feeling. I am defining success and confidence in a new way. And if I screw-up there is no problem -because Mindfulness means that the process of being Mindful is everything. ...If I am going round in circles -viciously even- then I will correct my vision and see that the process is the aim. Or, to use a really corny saying: the journey is the destination. All my security and peace of mind is here.

I hope that you have the same experience with Mindfulness as me. Or otherwise with some other kind of technique. And even though it is early days still, my confidence and faith in this technique and outlook is growing all the time.

Here is a basic description of Mindfulness again...
Whatever thoughts or feelings or sensations arise, let them arise without any attempt to control or to do anything about them. Simply notice them with the attitude of an Impartial Observer. With practise these intruding thoughts and emotions will lose their power and will come and go. There is no judgement involved, and no attempt at control.
-this strategy for dealing with anxiety in the moment that it is experienced can be practised for periods of time throughout the day, when for example watching television or ironing. It is also a good idea to practise Mindfulness in meditation, combined with other beneficial kinds of meditation.

For further information on Mindfulness, see these sites...

www.mindfulrecovery.com
...this is one site that I am really following. The creator uses Minfulness with a meditation that gets the person to reexperience fearful situations, in a way that I believe is designed to desensitize them to these situations.

Also, this site is good...
www.budsas.org
-look at "Mindfulness in Plain English" , at the Chapters on 'Dealing with Distractions'.
 

lolly23

Member
try eft.there's a video on how to do it on you tube.i found it the other day.takes about half hour to memorise it all BUT IT WORKS!
 

Y

Well-known member
lolly23 said:
try eft.there's a video on how to do it on you tube.i found it the other day.takes about half hour to memorise it all BUT IT WORKS!

Hi lolly, its like you read my mind, i was gonna make a topic about eft today, cos everyone including my doctor advised me to try eft, and said how it worked on %80 of people.

Did it really work for you? Can you go in more detail please? I tried and it didnt seem to work for me, maybe im in the %20.
 

TAMPA-BAY

Well-known member
Why the F *** doesnt any thing seem to work.

I can relate to what blue and that one girl said.
I ve bought over a 100 books and most of them were junk.
They sound good when you are reading them but when you try the methods they teach they dont work.

Little MissMuffet your mindfulness sounds a lot like this cognative method that i've been working on recently. It s deals with maladaptive thoughts. Can you please E-mail me so i can try it please.

Lolly23 an Y could you 2 send me the link to that you-tube site? My e mail is on my profile.
 

lolly23

Member
eft to y

hi y,if i can advise anyone anything its definately eft.Im the biggest sceptic in the world but ive still got hope with this social phobia.If were clever enough to create it then were clever enough to undo it.Im convinced the people who tend to get it are sensitive and very intuitive.Thinking about it it would be interesting to know what star sign we all are because i think cancerians and leo's are very intuitive(or paranoid!)Anyway ive heard a lot of positive feedback about eft so i give hundred percent doing it.Imust find out the exact video i used to learn it.he hard part was learning it as you have to do tapping thinking and talk at the same time which took me 20 mins to get used to,quite hard.but worth it!!! Ialways get really nervous with four of my customers my voice shakes and i feel sick etc.I knew i would be seeing them last saturday and i felt sick at the thought of making a fool out of myself again.so i basically used this situation with the eft.lo and behold it bloody worked i was so shocked.I think it will work for 100 percent of people the 20 percent they say it doesnt work for i think its because they didnt do it properly.please believe me.But you must learn to do it first so practice using a certain person u are nervy with and see the difference.let me know and the best of luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
HI Tampa Bay,

I've put up a few links to Mindfulness which you may be able to find in a thread in the "social anxiety" section of this forum (and it won't be too old). Checking this thread out, it will have "Mindfulness" in the title, will be good because I've added quotes off the internet about Mindfulness that are pretty good.

But I can give you the main articles of interest here....

www.mindfulrecovery.com

is a site created by a Cesar Bujosa, who himself recovered from social anxiety. He uses Mindfulness both as meditation and also as a way of dealing with anxiety in the moment. In the meditation exercises, he uses a Creative form of meditation that involves a kind of mental rehearsal or imagining yourself in feared situations and then alternates to Mindfulness and its calming, balancing style of meditation; this is to assimilate the strong emotions we feel.
I am still reading-up a lot about meditation -but just yesterday I have read of how such a method is used successfully for treating phobias and fears.

www.budsas.org

-look at this site, specifically look at "Mindfulness In Plain English" by Gunaratana Mahathera, Chapter 12, "Dealing with distractions 2". This gives an in depth description of how to practise Mindfulness.

-also, you could just google words like "Mindfulness" and "anxiety" or "Mindfulness Based Anxiety Reduction" or even "Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy".


...But for dealing specifically with maladaptive thoughts, Cesar's site www.mindfulrecovery.com deals with this using Mindfulness. He gives examples of what these maladaptive beliefs and attitudes may be as an extra help.

Because I am new to all this and don't yet know with certainty what works or what methods are more effective (I am afterall still in the process of applying techniques to my anxiety) -you may also want to read what Jacky has said about Mindfulness and what he calls 'the next stage' (I can't remember the exact name for this next stage, but he gives it in the thread "the critical factor ..... " in the Social Anxiety section of this forum.)

And as I said, I am no expert on what is the best cure so this may be worth checking out also. And I thought that I'd mention it to you, on the basis that this could also be a useful technique. -I still have to check it out my self so I have no idea yet if this extra technique would work or not.
 

loner45

Member
I know exactly how you feel.....
Right now, my world is crumbling all around me. Lost my job, my place to live, and everything else that I own. I've hit rock bottom, and nothing is working for me.

WHAT DO I HAVE TO LIVE FOR???????
 
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