Thoracoscopic (VATS) Sympathectomy

steve0523

Member
Hello everyone,

I suffer from mild hyperhidrosis and have tried everything from Drysol,to Avert (glycopyrrolate) and botox. The avert worked fine 2mg every morning however the side effects weren't worth it for me. Everything else pretty much worked for a short while and than sweating again.

My family doctor recommended this procedure which apparently takes 20 minutes and is painless. Its called Thoracoscopic Sympathectomy and according to my doctor they clip the nerve that connects hands and armpits sweating. Its permanent which I really like.

I have done some research and the success rate looks really high so I was wondering if anyone on this forum has tried it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

Steve
 

Sprawling

Well-known member
It's a very popular and well known topic. The biggest risk is compensatory sweating which can start instantly or 5 years later. Usually the worst happens years later. People who first have it done claim success. Best to base your decision to have it on those who are at least 5 years post op.

You can read more on ets by searching this forum.
 

steve0523

Member
Thanks Sprawling for the reply. Yes I agree I'm interested in hearing responses of people who have done it 5 plus years ago. Compensatory Sweating is a big thing.

It's weird cause if I don't wear socks my body is fine. The moment I put socks on my feet, armpits and hands start sweating. It's super weird and no doctor can figure it out. :(

I am reading how the procedure is a lot less painful and demanding than it was five/ten years ago. I have been reading quite a few positive and negative reviews on it from this forum. However, looking at the doctor who I was recommended nothing but positive reviews. Super difficult

Any more feedback would be great.

Steve
 

JR25

Active member
Hi Steve. As someone who went through the operation 15-16 years ago now, my advice mate would be don't do it! I enjoy having dry hands, but the thing is they are now freakishly dry, i.e. you do a 60 minute treadmill session and there's next to no sweat on your hands, less I would imagine than a 'normal' person. Now, this might sound like a dream for someone with palm hyperhidrosis (and it did to me before the ops), but the nerves that they cut don't just affect the hands and underarms, they control sweating to the face, forehead, scalp, and I think neck. for the last decade-and-a-half I have sweat next to nothing from these areas (again, even after a gym workout in the summer). Consequently I feel hot / flushed all of the time (to the point where you feel like you're going to pass out). Sweating from the face and head are natural bodily reactions, but something that I simply cannot do now. Also, not sweating at all from the underarms feels very unnatural.
When I think about my quality of life pre-surgery, I would say it was at least 10 times better than the last fifteen years have been. Instead of sweating through 'normal' areas like the hands, feet, underarms and face, I sweat horribly through my back, stomach, chest, sides and legs. So much embarrassment, self-conscious etc it's ridiculous. I did so many things 'back in the day' like play rugby that I just don't feel able to do now. Basically it feels like the nervous system (and consequently body) are f****d. What people (including myself) seem to make the mistake of, is thinking that hyperhidrosis sufferers have some kind of extra nerves that make our hands sweat (for example) but it's not the case - we have the exact same nerves as everyone else, ours are just overactive. But that's the thing, if something is going too fast you have to try and find ways to slow it down - not stick a knife through the damn thing! The operations are just so unnatural and wrong in my opinion, the nerves are there for a reason and serve so many functions. For example, I am convinced that the ops have also had a very damaging effect on my emotions, such as in my early teens I could cry like a baby if something upset me, but over the last fifteen years you kinda feel disconnected from everything, to the point where I didn't cry at either my grandma or granddad's funerals, and they both meant the world to me! Now of course I cannot prove that the operations did this, but after a lot of reading I'd say it's very likely.
Anyway, I hope that this doesn't come across as a 'woe is me' sobstory because that wasn't my intention, I just wanted to give a perspective of someone who has been through a devastating post-surgery existence for the last 15 years.
If you want my advice Steve, I would leave surgery well alone. Get as much as you possibly can from non-surgical treatments like iontophoresis and Odaban, maybe even add some brief counselling if your condition has caused you a lot of things over the years like depression. I believe in treatments like all three of these, and if I had my time again I would have used that package of support and stayed the hell away from surgery.
Anyway, very best of luck mate, don't give up hope.

JR25
 

hh_sucks

Well-known member
@JR25 Yeah, hopefully sweat gland destroyer instrument will become better and better. And I think I believe that will happen about 10 years from now.

Looks like you got side effect of hyperthermia there. Do you mind telling us the detail of it? Like at what climate temperature was it? And how hard was your work out?

I've read a person on this forum who got a success from SDLA procedure to lessen his CS effect for his back and chest.
 

JR25

Active member
Hi. I've not suffered hyperthermia if I understand the term correctly (the effects of being too cold). It's the opposite - with the nerves severed (and temperature regulation so messed up) you constantly feel very warm and flushed - a mild day for a 'normal' person is a hot day for me, for example.

When I work out I generally do an 8km-10km run over sixty minutes. After this I have very little sweat on my underarms, face, forehead, scalp, neck, hands or feet, but a lot of sweat on my back, stomach, chest and legs.

Regarding destroying sweat glands, I have to disagree. The sweat glands are there for a reason. Destroying any part of the body because of hyperhidrosis is crazy in my opinion, and I only wish I had known this 16 years ago. I believe the answer for anyone pre-surgery is to get the most possible benefit from non-surgical treatments. Quite honestly I seriously wish that sympathectomy had never been invented, and shame on whoever did invent it.
 

SweatyCanuck

Well-known member
I had it done last summer for my excessive sweating hands. Biggest regret of my life. Now my back, stomach, crotch and legs sweat like crazy any time it is even slightly warm. I would give anything to have my dripping hands back. Doctor told me to get avert and I have tried using 8mg daily (I heard that is the highest safe dose) and all I get is a super dry mouth and foggy brain. This winter has been tolerable at work but I am getting super anxious now that the temps are rising. Last summer was horrible for me after I had it done.
 
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steve0523

Member
Thanks so much for the feedback JR25 and SweatyCanuck, I really appreciate it. I have a consolation on Monday but its safe to say I wont be doing the operation. Way to many negative reviews I have been reading and I don't feel confident doing this.

I have been taking 2mg avert for a while but there is a lot of side effects and long term consequences that my doctor told me to stop taking.

Also how bad was your sweating, minimal, mild or extreme? I would consider myself mild but when I'm wearing no socks my hands are completely dry. Its really weird and I wish I had an explanation as to why socks cause a total feet, armpits and hand sweating :(

SweatyCanuck where are you from in Canada, I am from Toronto.
As a former Avert user please do not take 8mg a day. That is way to much and will cause extremely dry mouth, it will cause headaches and a very dry nose to name a few.

Thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it
 

JR25

Active member
Hi Steve. No worries at all, glad I could help, and for yourself (or anyone else on here considering surgery), if I can offer any advice or information, or answer any questions, you only have to ask.
To be honest Steve I’m really pleased that you’re not going to go any further with it. I can only go on personal experience, but for me my quality of life was 10x better (at least) pre-surgery, so I hate the thought of others walking into the same problems and side-effects that I’ve faced over the last sixteen years.
Re Avert, I had the same experiences (for example the side-effects). Avert in wipe form (I believe from pharmacy.ca) was a bit better than the pills, I think because by using them on your body (rather than ingesting tablets) the side-effects didn’t seem quite as severe, but they were still bad enough, and with compensatory sweating over large areas such as the back I found them to be quite expensive, because they were only small and so not cost-effective to cover large surface areas of the body. Therefore, I personally will hopefully not turn to Avert (or the other medications like Ditropan) again, but they might be helpful for some people under a doctor’s supervision.
I had hyperhidrosis of the hands and feet. I saw a video on YouTube of a girl who’s hands had sweat running off them (or dripping off at the very least). Mine were not quite that bad, but I would say my hands and feet were still very bad. In my early to mid-teens I went through some extremely mortifying and humiliating experiences, such as people expressing disgust / repulsion when they touched my palms. Another horrible experience was having to do school sport indoors in bare feet (as I had forgotten my trainers). That was the day my school friends discovered that my feet sweat just as much as my hands, as I slipped around the gym floor, leaving traces and footprints of sweat everywhere I went! It was horrible to go through that as a teenager, and when I think back to then I’m not surprised that I went through surgery. What really hurts though is that surgery is often presented to patients as the only effective alternative to a lifetime of sweaty hands, feet or underarms. However, that really is not the case from what I’ve read over the last decade. There are some great treatments out there, and my understanding is that they are always working hard to improve iontophoresis (for example), so there really is hope for people with excessive sweating of areas like the hands, feet and underarms.
Anyway, best of luck with your treatment mission Steve, and once again I’m pleased I was able to help a little. Best wishes.

JR25
 

steve0523

Member
Thanks again JR,

Its weird cause you said when your feet were/are exposed you were slipping and leaving footprints of sweat everywhere. I am the complete opposite whereas when my feet are bare I am dry on my feet, hands and armpits. Its really weird and I think that my hyperhidrosis isn't as bad as others and I think I have other solutions, but have yet to find them :(.

I am doing some blood tests next week so I will find out if its related to a thyroid issue like my doctor observed. Its so weird but I will hopefully one day find a cure for this.

Again thanks JR for the update and feedback throughout
 

hh_sucks

Well-known member
No need a lab work if you meet these criterias.

Diagnose primary focal hyperhidrosis when focal, visible, excessive sweating:

  • Occurs in at least one of the following sites: axillae, palms, soles, or craniofacial region; and
  • Has lasted at least six months; and
  • Has no apparent cause; and
  • Has at least two of the following characteristics:[2]
    • Bilateral and relatively symmetrical.
    • Impairs daily activities.
    • Frequency of at least one episode per week.
    • Onset before 25 years of age.
    • Positive family history.
    • Cessation of local sweating during sleep.

If symptoms have lasted less than six months or onset is at 25 years of age or older, primary focal hyperhidrosis remains a likely diagnosis if other criteria are met, but extra care should be taken to exclude an underlying cause.

Source:

Hyperhidrosis | Doctor | Patient.co.uk
 

steve0523

Member
So I went to the consultation yesterday and the doctor was amazing. He felt my hands which were not sweating as much due to drysol and he recommended that the operation is not worth it for me at this time since topical antiperspirants are working fine on me. I have under his diagnosis mild hyperhidrosis which is what I assumed.

Regarding the surgery he said before me even stating my concerns that there are new advancements in the sense that the nerve being clipped is a lot lower than 10 to 15 years ago. So when working out the person will still sweat from the forehead and armpits just not as much as before. But the key is that the person will sweat. Also stated compensatory sweating to the back or stomach might take place but at a reduced amount than from hands.

All in all the doctor told be after he felt my hands he would not recommend the procedure so I feel a bit better.

Thanks again everyone for the feedback.
 

SweatyCanuck

Well-known member
I live 2 hours east of Toronto... I had my surgery in Brampton. My hands used to drip when I would be just sitting still... The doctor told me I "may sweat slightly from my lower back but not enough to show through a shirt". Well, it pours out of my back, stomach, legs and groin area since I had the surgery. Now that the temperature is above freezing, I'm sweating my balls off (literally) at work. He told me to get the avert and I asked him what if it doesnt work... he said it works. I told him it didn't... and here I sit... with a problem 10x bigger than I started with. Sweaty hands were embarrassing, but looking like you soiled yourself is 1000x worse.
 
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Sprawling

Well-known member
So sorry that the dice didn't roll in your favor. I'm sure it's very hard for you. Thanks for all your sharing. I wish there was positive advice to offer you. Did the compensatory sweating start immediately after surgery?
 

SweatyCanuck

Well-known member
I have them yes but they don't work for my compensatory sweating. Goes right through them. Paid a ton of money for them too from sutran
 

JR25

Active member
So I went to the consultation yesterday and the doctor was amazing. He felt my hands which were not sweating as much due to drysol and he recommended that the operation is not worth it for me at this time since topical antiperspirants are working fine on me. I have under his diagnosis mild hyperhidrosis which is what I assumed.

Regarding the surgery he said before me even stating my concerns that there are new advancements in the sense that the nerve being clipped is a lot lower than 10 to 15 years ago. So when working out the person will still sweat from the forehead and armpits just not as much as before. But the key is that the person will sweat. Also stated compensatory sweating to the back or stomach might take place but at a reduced amount than from hands.

All in all the doctor told be after he felt my hands he would not recommend the procedure so I feel a bit better.

Thanks again everyone for the feedback.

Hi Steve. Very pleased to read your post. I'm glad you had a good appointment and things are working well. :)

One thing I used to do by the way to help increase the effect of anti-perspirants like Drysol further is to wear plastic gloves at night when you sleep. This might sound very strange at first, but it's something I read on the official website of Odaban, which is seen as one of the most effective prescription-strength anti-perspirants here in the UK. You apply the solution, and then put on the plastic gloves before sleeping. There's some type of science / logic in there; it somehow increases the drying effect of the solution (the website said sarin wrap can have a similar effect - I guess this is the US and / or Canadian equivilant of cling film traditionally used for covering foods?). The plastic gloves were easy to get - in the UK you can get them for free from petrol stations (gas stations in the US / Canada?).
Anyway, it's just a little type you might find useful. :)
 
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