This might upset some people.

[Scoutabout]

As someone who has spent years suffering from depression, anxiety and phobias, I am tired of the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" crowd. Many of us have spent years trying to understand and battle these "demons" within ourselves, and it is hard enough without having someone wag a finger at us, especially those who have been fortunate enough not to have suffered from any of these illnesses. What really bothers me is that these same people wouldn't dream of wagging a finger at someone with diabetes (for example), telling them to "just get over it". These illnesses are just as real as diabetes and other conditions. I have done everything I can think of to bring an end to my illnesses, but now that I'm in my fifties, I have finally realized that probably the most I will be able to do is control them through the combination of medications and therapy. I have been on and off medications through the years, and I can tell you from personal experience that whenever I try to go without medications, I only get worse every time. In my case, I believe I have unfortunately inherited the biochemical makeup that makes me as I am. There are so many in my family with depression, bipolar disorder and other mental problems that I think I was doomed from the start. However, I've always had this fight in me, and will not give up. I will continue to take my meds and see a therapist to keep myself on an even keel. That's another thing - some people are so ignorant they think these medications make people "high". Forgive me, but that is just plain stupid to suggest such an idea. I do not enjoy taking these meds, and they certainly don't get me "high". The most they do is bring me up to "normal" - otherwise, I would fall into that pit again, and that always risks suicidal thoughts which could always turn into the real thing. That scares me. I'm also angry at the people suggesting the problem is "self-centeredness". No, the problem is that these are illnesses. I have these illnesses, but can continue to do many things that are very unselfish. These are not diseases of "selfishness". When was the last time some of you donated money or time to a worthy cause? I do it all the time. I always find ways to think of others and help others. If anything, the positive side of what I have been dealing with is that it has made me more sympathetic towards others. Because I have felt pain, I feel the pain of others. Let's quit treating people with SA and other illnesses and conditions as though they have a simple problem with a simple solution - that belittles people.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Scoutabout.

I agree with what you are saying - and I realize you were referring generally to people who make quick assumptions about how to 'cure' social anxiety. You're peaved with people who do that right? - and also people who equate social anxiety with self-centredness.

I'm with you on both those points.

But I just want to make sure you realize, cause I'm not sure if you do or not, that I wasn't actually disagreeing with you. I think one of my paragraphs may have been worded with two possibble contradictory interpretations. I meant that I agreed with you that social anxiety was not self-centredness.

I was then trying to make my own seperate point, nothing to do with your posts at all, just my own point - that we have to battle the condition as best we can - which you just went on to say that you do in your last post - and that we have a choice at least in whether or not to try to overcome it as best we can - even if that turns out to seem a small accumplishment comparatively.

You have a lot more experience with this than me, but I'm sure you'll agree with me - that when we give in, things can spiral to the point whereby, at worst, a person can't use the phone or talk to anyone - barely even family. Iv'e experienced that a fair bit at 22. At that stage depression can sink in and we can feel quite nihilistic or even suicidal right?

I just think that anyone with social anxiety who faces these negative feelings and has the courage to make themselves try - for example to communicate with family/friends etc, or as you say, e.g. contribute to charity and overcome the symptoms as best they can - should be commended. It seems to me that many people on this site are doing this which is great. But some arn't, and if they're not, that's a little bit selfish - in my opinion. Though I admit you need a bit of clarity in your mind about your situation and what you want to do - I mean I appreciate it can seem to just happen to you at times.

I do believe that the vast majority of us can at least manage the condition, so that we are reasonably independent and have enough energy/thought space to care about others- if we try to be positive.

And CORIANDER -

I hear what you are saying. What Iv'e said is not original either I know. But sometimes we can lose sight of some simple things. And we can feel sorry for ourselves. It helps me sometimes just to remind myself so I don't get too complacent or pessimistic. cause when that happens to me, it's contageous and doesn't help anyone. That's for sure.

Soz for the length. I just don't want to be misunderstood. That's all.

 

[krs2snow]

I can understand where Justinzerofive and Scoutabout are coming from. However, my personal theory has always been if I could just "let go" of my control over situations, I would be much happier. I do oscillate between thinking I should/need to be taking meds. to help me with this (as in- it is beyond my control), to thinking it is just a matter of Not Caring what others think and, in turn, I need to change the way I am thinking. The later is the one I most often abide by.

I think Justinzerofive is stating his opinions on the subject and if this is the conclusion he has come to and it has worked for him, more power to him!

I do think we all too often blame our behaviors as being "beyond our control" and I think at some point, we have to take responsibility for ourselves. For example, someone sued McDonald's because they spilled coffee they had ordered in their own lap and burned themselves! How ridiculous is that!?

If behaving a certain way in a situation is socially unacceptable, then you shouldn't behave that way! Is it socially acceptable not to go to your works' Christmas Celebration- when everyone else from the company went? No. It isn't. I know this.

I just think we have more control over ourselves then we like to admit.

Many people are sooo tired of hearing "Buck up, camper! Pull yourself up by your boot straps!"

I'm tired of hearing the excuses. I have a "disease", an "addiction" or an "illness"!

Oh, gee! I ran into and killed a family of five? Heck, don't blame me! I'm an alcoholic, I have a disease! Oh, boy! I stole money from my family? Well, don't blame me! I'm a cokehead, I have an addiction! Oh, golly! I act like a complete idiot in social situations? Hey, don't blame me, I have a illness!

At some point we have to take responsibility for ourselves and our actions! If everyone at work thinks that I am a total and complete outcast and social freak- guess what? It's because I have created that perception!

This is where I end up. Not, I need drugs. Or, I have an illness. Or, there is something "wrong" with me. I think I need to take more responsibility for myself. I agree with Justinzerofive. If things do not change for myself, I have no one to blame but myself.

 

[bleach]

Oh, gee! I ran into and killed a family of five? Heck, don't blame me! I'm an alcoholic, I have a disease! Oh, boy! I stole money from my family? Well, don't blame me! I'm a cokehead, I have an addiction! Oh, golly! I act like a complete idiot in social situations? Hey, don't blame me, I have a illness!

:roll: Was this post ghostwritten by nikki? How are those other situations analogous to social phobia?

If things do not change for myself, I have no one to blame but myself.

Why does anyone need to be BLAMED? People have a blaming obsession. Someone must always be at fault, and if it's not someone else it has to be yourself? Why? This is a destructive attitude, not a constructive one.

I just think that anyone with social anxiety who faces these negative feelings and has the courage to make themselves try - for example to communicate with family/friends etc, or as you say, e.g. contribute to charity and overcome the symptoms as best they can - should be commended. It seems to me that many people on this site are doing this which is great. But some arn't, and if they're not, that's a little bit selfish - in my opinion.

It's selfish to avoid doing something for yourself? :roll:

 

[krs2snow]

,,

 

[krs2snow]

Oh, gee! I ran into and killed a family of five? Heck, don't blame me! I'm an alcoholic, I have a disease! Oh, boy! I stole money from my family? Well, don't blame me! I'm a cokehead, I have an addiction! Oh, golly! I act like a complete idiot in social situations? Hey, don't blame me, I have a illness!

:roll: Was this post ghostwritten by nikki? How are those other situations analogous to social phobia?

The way in which these situations are comparable is- at some point- we all need to be responsible for our Own actions. This post is more a statement to myself rather than a hit on SPW. Bad night tonight, I guess.

 

[bleach]

Oh, gee! I ran into and killed a family of five? Heck, don't blame me! I'm an alcoholic, I have a disease! Oh, boy! I stole money from my family? Well, don't blame me! I'm a cokehead, I have an addiction! Oh, golly! I act like a complete idiot in social situations? Hey, don't blame me, I have a illness!

:roll: Was this post ghostwritten by nikki? How are those other situations analogous to social phobia?

Oh, please! Come on, Bleach! The way in which these situations are comparable is- at some point- we all need to be responsible for our Own actions. I will thank you, please, not to compare me to a
complete ignoramous. The above post is more a statement to myself rather than a hit on SPW.

You could have just said "we all need to be responsible for our actions", instead of framing the conversation as if acting like a dork is a horrible crime. And I disagree that you need to blame yourself for anything, how about just accepting your the fact that you are human and will make mistakes at times? Do you think that beating yourself over the head and blowing your past mistakes out of proportion will make it easier to deal with your problems? In my opinion, this is a large part of what gave us our avoidant tendencies in the first place.

I do apologize for comparing you to nikki though, you didn't deserve that one :lol:

 

[krs2snow]

You could have just said "we all need to be responsible for our actions"

We all need to be responsiible for our actions!

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Bleach - Yes and no to your question.

No it's not selfish to avoid doing something that you know is too difficult for you at a certain time.

Yes it is selfish to avoid trying to get better socially or to try and work on worrying less about ourselves. Because whether we like it or not, being unhappy and seriously inhibited socially has a negative affect or just simply no positive affect on others lives. And we do spend a lot of time internalising about our issues. Knowingly doing that, and believing that it's 'just the way you are', is a false belief.

And you know, it's not really about blame. You don't have to feel angry at yourself. You just need to be realistic about what you need to do, what your not doing that you should be, and admit to yourself that you can do more than you're doing, even if it won't be easy. In that respect Kr2snow is right. I think the label/diagnoses can become an excuse. Nobody is supposed to identify themselves with a phobia as if it is a part of their personality in my opinion. That is a mistake. It really should just be a way of categorising symptoms to make it clear to you and others what the problem is, so that you can try to overcome it. Fair enough, some people can only do so to a degree. But I don't believe there is a SA person who is not capable, with a lot of effort, of leading a relatively normal life. If you're avoiding things like going to the shop to buy milk, or phoning someone etc, because you have decided you can't do it PERIOD, then you are not trying hard enough, and you are hiding behind your phobia.

It's not a case of 'just get your act together' or 'snap out of it' etc etc. Nobody on this thread, at least, is saying that. It's a case of 'be honest about how hard you are trying and whether you are willing to experience a little pain, in order to gain some social confidence.

But that's it for me now. I think maybe this thread is just gonna get circular.

 

[Scoutabout]

For years I did not know I had the illnesses of depression coupled with anxiety disorders and phobias. I myself went through all the other possible causes for my feelings and behaviors - including that I might just be plain self-centered. I'm am saddened that some of you in these posts still blame the victim for the illness(es). The fact that these illnesses were not recognized and dealt with while I was still young caused a lot of heartache and waste. The fact that I was a child whose problem was totally ignored was not my fault, being that I WAS a child. However, once I became an adult, I did take matters into my own hands, and I resent those people who somehow think it is self-centered or shifting the blame to someone or something else because I am trying to understand and manage my illnesses. There are still people in these posts who are living in the dark ages, who obviously have not studied psychology or biology and the mind-body connection. They still do not think of depression, anxiety and phobias as REAL illnesses - which, by the way, THEY ARE. When you have chest pains, is it "selfish" and "irresponsible" to think that you might have a serious problem, one that should be checked out by a doctor? Well, depression and other mental illnesses cause painful symptoms and disrupt life in a way that also should be checked out by a doctor. I have done that. I wish I had seen a doctor sooner, because my life is way better now that I am being treated. Also, I want to make the point that a "one size fits all" approach will not work in treating these illnesses. It depends on the severity, longevity and so forth of these illnesses. Some people require more and different treatments. Some may even rid themselves of these illnesses. Others will battle it all their lives. In my case, getting treatment has enabled me to truly contribute more than ever in life. I could be wrong, but I don't think I will ever be 100% free of my illnesses. But life is pretty good and not only is my life a lot better, I know that I have helped others. Some of you who are not so helpful and understanding need to get more educated. You might also benefit from a visit to the NAMI website.

 

[Scoutabout]

P.S. - This is probably my last post regarding this particular subject. I will move on to another one. I think I have said all I can pertinently say. It would be pointless for me to go on, as I believe in the addage, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". I believe I have reached that stage with some of you.

 

[de]

As someone who has spent years suffering from depression, anxiety and phobias, I am tired of the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" crowd. Many of us have spent years trying to understand and battle these "demons" within ourselves, and it is hard enough without having someone wag a finger at us, especially those who have been fortunate enough not to have suffered from any of these illnesses. What really bothers me is that these same people wouldn't dream of wagging a finger at someone with diabetes (for example), telling them to "just get over it". These illnesses are just as real as diabetes and other conditions. I have done everything I can think of to bring an end to my illnesses, but now that I'm in my fifties, I have finally realized that probably the most I will be able to do is control them through the combination of medications and therapy. I have been on and off medications through the years, and I can tell you from personal experience that whenever I try to go without medications, I only get worse every time. In my case, I believe I have unfortunately inherited the biochemical makeup that makes me as I am. There are so many in my family with depression, bipolar disorder and other mental problems that I think I was doomed from the start. However, I've always had this fight in me, and will not give up. I will continue to take my meds and see a therapist to keep myself on an even keel. That's another thing - some people are so ignorant they think these medications make people "high". Forgive me, but that is just plain stupid to suggest such an idea. I do not enjoy taking these meds, and they certainly don't get me "high". The most they do is bring me up to "normal" - otherwise, I would fall into that pit again, and that always risks suicidal thoughts which could always turn into the real thing. That scares me. I'm also angry at the people suggesting the problem is "self-centeredness". No, the problem is that these are illnesses. I have these illnesses, but can continue to do many things that are very unselfish. These are not diseases of "selfishness". When was the last time some of you donated money or time to a worthy cause? I do it all the time. I always find ways to think of others and help others. If anything, the positive side of what I have been dealing with is that it has made me more sympathetic towards others. Because I have felt pain, I feel the pain of others. Let's quit treating people with SA and other illnesses and conditions as though they have a simple problem with a simple solution - that belittles people.

well said!!!!!

 

[Marie_knowsbest]

postzerofive- i 100% agree with you, i am so happy there is someone else on this forum who has suffered with problems, but understands them from a different perspective rather than just that of their own.

this person understands that feelings 'i cant do this because i am not good enough' and the reality of 'i cannot do this because i believe i am not good enough' are exactly the same things.

i too have suffered some horribe states of mind, enough respect to you though mate because not half as bad as yours, but i 100% agree with you that the world will not stop turning. if you turn round to some one (for pure example) and say 'i wish i had more money...but i was too afraid to accept this job because it would involve to much people contact' no one will feel sorry for you, its not harsh, its reality.

i believe people only gain respect, and respect and like are two different things, those who although had all the material reasons to give up, never did.

i learned this when i picked up the phone, i had enough of feeling like shit, and i demmanded for a appointment up my GP's, i was crying my eyes out, shaking havin a panic attack etc i went up my GP's, i was 100% numb, didnt give a fuck about anything anymore, he handed me some drugs and told me to get in contact with the hospital. so i picked up my perscription and i even remember when she looked at my perscription and looked at it funny, i thought to myself 'just do ya job love, i ent gotta answer to you!'. so i took em home. i took one. then i thought to myself 'what r these going to do for me??' i didnt wanna place my self control in the hands of some doctors and some tablets. so i binned them. and havent looked back.

so take control. only you will ever truly know you 100%, underneath insecurities and a past is a person. tend to the person not the insecurites and problems and disroders. chase dreams, make money, love people, love yaself and keep healthy. thats all any of us can do. shy, confident, king or peasent. were all in the same boat.

and the comment about being self centred and that, is also true to an extent, because when u think 'oh people think this about me' your saying that person has nothing better to do than think bad things about you. which is self centred. but hey. we all do it. just put it into perspective.

 

[mushawah]

i love it,finally someone says wut i feel

 

[Lexmark]

miss_amy
Intermediate User



Joined: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 196

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK now for your telling off.

I think your post is really patronising and I think you are really thoughtless coming here with your first post with a title that clearly states you are going to upset some people.

What makes you think you have all the answers and that everyone here is in their miserable little shells as you put it. How do you know what everyone wants? Words like saying the world doesn't revolve one person. Grrr! Maybe you should consider a lot of us have a valid history that makes us this way an it takes more fixing than simple stop thinking.

If it was as simple as stop thinking about being scared of people don't you think we'd have all done it by now?

Your plan is obviously not working either and you don't have all the answers for us all.

Exactly wat i would have said