SURVEY QUESTION:

allergic2kryptonit

Active member
My question...does negative thinking and negative beliefs lead to low self esteem and depression -or- does depression lead to negative thinking??
 

Emma

Well-known member
Depression leads to negative thinking, if I wasn't so depressed I wouldn't have such negative thoughts.....every other normal person seems to be enjoying sunshine and lollipops, I have no sunshine or lollipop
 

savage_beagle

Well-known member
change your old ways of thinking.

From my own experiences, i would say that negative thinking brings on the depression and when you are depressed..the cycle continues with even more negative thoughts, low opinion of yourself, very low self esteem and so on. SOMETIMES, the depression is brought on by low seratonin levels in your brain, lack of vitamins and minerals, poor nutrition , destructive habits such as smoking, alcohol abuse, etc. For those individuals, their brains need a pharmecuetical drug to boost their seratonin levels to normal. They may always need to take that prescribed drug in order to function normally. I believe its too easy for somebody to claim depression and have a doctor dispense drugs to ''solve'' their problems. Often, these drugs cause too many bad side effects and make a person feel like a zombie. I myself started out with a ''clean slate'' , but as i moved thru childhood, my mind was slowly polluted with negative sights and sounds. Think about it...if what you hear, see and told is mostly negative, or you rarely recieve praise, your mind accepts that as reality. IF you were a fearful , anxious, sad child who was hardly ever exposed to positive events, positive people..that may become your adult world. Good news is that if you look deep inside yourself and realize that all that negativity was your own distorted thinking, and you wish to break free of your old thought patterns, you can. Live in the present, and not in the past or the future...start to see the good around you and decide its time to re-invent yourself, into a positive and confident individual...or you can do nothing and nothing changes, except your another day older and still stuck in limbo.
 

nope1

Well-known member
savage_beagle, did you try anti-depressants? If yes, what's your experience with them.
 

savage_beagle

Well-known member
dont rely on drugs, just change your thinking.

Hi nope1....i was taking lithium for about 3 years. I thought back then i was bi-polar, as i had big mood swings. Now, lithium is a safe and effective drug, its relatively cheap and works for most people....but my problems were all in my own, negative , distorted mind. I would dwell on past ''failures'', i thought to far ahead and worried (which is fear), procrastinated wayyyy too much, listened to too much angry and depressive music, watched too much mindless tv, read too many newspapers, associated with negative and critical people..that included family members, friends, c0-workers and i lived on a shitty diet of too much caffiene and ciggs, junk food, sugars and poor sleep habits. I felt like i hit rock bottom and was tired of visiting doctors who really never listened but were always eager to supply me with paxil. When i did the opposite of all the things i listed earlier and started to read positive affirmations, listened to new age music, bought books and read websites on positive thinking..i slowly changed for the better. It is a continual, gradual change....one that many noticed and pointed out to me. Dont wait for a miracle drug or a person , place or thing to make you happy. Just look deep into your own mind and solve your own problems, one step at a time. You will never be ''perfect'', but you can become more content..if you try. Many of you will read this and think ''blah blah blah..ya butttt...me me me'' and continue to be unhappy and maybe fill the void with consumer products, drugs, alcohol...the next great thing that will cure you. You are your own cure, nobody or no thing will save your tortured soul. Change your thoughts, Change your life. :wink:
 

savage_beagle

Well-known member
one more thing...

one more thing! I noticed another great improvement in myself. I pretty much stopped complaining and bitching. Nobody likes to be around people like that..it drags them down. ALSO, in a genuine way, i learned to offer praise to others, and they respond with kindness..they remember you for making them feel good inside, for making them smile. Try it next chance, offer praise to somebody (even the kid serving you thru the drive-thru burger joint) and if you can...a light touch or pat on the shoulder...you connect and both feel good. When people you are around start to complain and criticize others, show class and walk away or point out the good..or just keep your mouth shut...be part of the solution and not the problem.
 

nope1

Well-known member
Thanks for the reply savage_beagle.

I've been under depression for about 2 years since my last vacation visiting my family. Long story short, from there, I just couldn't function. (If it gives you perspective, I'm 21 years old)

Right now, I just want to know if taking meds will give me a "boost" to get better. I know meds aren't magic pills. I know I'll have to change my thoughts, go thru therapy. But I just want to know if they can help you wake up so that I can do those things.

And thanks for the answer, it gives me hope to see that some people got thru it.
 

Bearly

Active member
I agree with a lot of what you are saying savage beagle. Using positive affirmations is very good stuff. Your concious thoughts start to influence your sub-concious mind, and that is very good. After years of negative thinking, it will take a while to change to positive thinking and thoughts of self esteem, but the result will be worth the effort.

Praise is good too. We think very much alike.

Another suggestion is to list in your mind everthing that you are grateful for. While anxiety dis-orders are bad, there are other people worse off than you. I just read a post by someone on another form and this guy has MS. That would really suck.

Some suggestions of things to be thankful for are:

A roof over your head. You're not homeless are you?

Food on the table. A large number of people go to bed hungry ever night.

Access to education. Friends, family, transportation, pets, people trying to help you on this forum, good weather, a beautiful day, ect.

Of course there are people better off than you, but think how much better off you have it than a lot of other people. List what you have, and even if it's average, it is probably better than a lot (millions) of other people. So be grateful for these things, and if you are spiritual or religious in nature, thank whatever concept you have of The Creator, or God in other words. And I suggest listing these often.
 

allergic2kryptonit

Active member
hey savage beagle, you hit the nail on the head with your posts. i'm 33 yrs old, and i've finally come to the realization that my negative thought patterns are at the heart of all my problems. i have low self-esteem, depression, social anxiety. i've been reading a lot of self-help and cognitive therapy books. but i only now realize that it's all been negative thinking and negative beliefs formed in childhood "traumas" that have driven everything!! low self esteem is just negative (and false) thoughts about myself. depression is reliving negative memories, without remembering the positives. anxiety is worrying about negatives in the future... anyway, my main goal now is changing these lifelong negative patterns - which i don't think will be easy. but with awareness and constant effort, i think i can change.

also, thinking about making positive affirmation tape to listen to every night at bedtime, just to try to train my subconscious mindset - what do you think about that??

thanks a lot for your input everyone :D
 

Bearly

Active member
I don't know what savage beagle thinks, but I think that is a great idea. Our subconcious is an idiot box. Garbage in = garbage out. The good news is good stuff in = good stuff out. It will take time though, but the results will come. I would suggest trying meditaiton, creative visualization or even self-hypnosis to relax first, and then do your affirmations and listen to that recorded tape. There are also tapes that use creative visualization to relax.

The say things like "Picture yourself taking a nice walk in nature, the birds are singing, all is peaceful. You come to a rest stop, and it is a place where you are always safe..... and so on. They are very peaceful to listen to and relax. The point is with relaxation the sub-concious mind is more open and influenced by the positive affirmation.

I liked you post about anxiety being about worring about bad or negative stuff in the future. So true.
 

savage_beagle

Well-known member
write them down

hi again! :) . If you are looking to think positive, do a web search on ''positive affirmations''. Next, save all the various websites that apply to your circumstances to your ''favorites''. Go buy a small notepad style book, the size of a small bible, with about 200 lined pages. When you find the appropiate positive affirmations, write them down..nice and clear. Hi-lite key words with yellow, green, pink...use different colored pens ..such as red, black, green, etc. When you awake in the morning, grab your notebook and just read over your affirmations, and do the same at bedtime. DO this for 1-2 months, and you should notice a change in your thinking. BELIEVE in your affirmations...believe them to be the truth. When you begin to think positive thoughts, or learn to ''silence'' your mind, you will notice that your anxieties will lessen..you will be calmer, and people will be drawn to you. It is the law of attraction. Turn off your tv, stop listening to sad-shitty songs on your radio...feed your mind only the best.
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
The correct order is that a person's thoughts and beliefs result in the emotions that they experience.

It is true that, because thoughts and emotions are connected, that your emotions in turn effect how you think, and that in this sense the mind-body connection works both ways. The mind and body are equal. Some people like the idea of using drugs to correct a biochemical imbalance. Others prefer to solve things using cognitive behvioural therapy, and focus on changing their thoughts. ...I don't pass judgement on what way is best for someone, since I figure that approaching one's problem can be done either through emotions or through thoughts.

One way or another, when the solution is found: emotions and thoughts come together.

....As for words like 'depression' and 'wrong thinking' ...these come about when both one's thoughts and emotions are out of perspective -being that a person only recognises at any given time, some of these at the expense of others. They do not recognise all of these together in order to put them all together and thus achieve balance.

What I believe -actually, what I know to be the truth, is that our 'wrong thoughts' are shared by many people both 'depressed', 'anxious' and both not 'depressed' and 'anxious'. The difference is that the 'depressed' and 'anxious' are or have become more sensitized. Our 'wrong thoughts' are only wrong because they are like boxes that can no-longer house the amount of emotion that we are experiencing. THis means that we are at a delicate place . And that others manage to avoid this delicate place of depression/anxiety either because they are less emotional or because they push people like us further towards the edge to avoid facing it themselves.

I see life in terms of change. And thoughts are like a box that house our emotions. But because life changes and the more sensitive/emotional always dance on a delicate balance between extremes, we reach a breaking point earlier than others. We experience change earlier and more profoundly than others because we have more emotion to control and contain. So, through change we outgrow our thoughts. These same thoughts that all people have. Our emotions become too big for our thought boxes to hold. And the more one tries to put something that is now too big into something now too small, the bigger that something big becomes. That is, we only experience negative things like anxiety and depression because our thoughts are 'too small' We experience the pain of not being able to control and give sufficient freedom to our emotions and so we experience the bad side of our self. Our thoughts are wrong only because we have been outgrowing them.

When we find a bigger box to put our emotions into, we give them freedom and are finally able to control them. It comes down to seeing a bigger picture (which I'm not suggesting is an easy thing to do).
And given this clearer picture of what is actually real, many people who judge us with their thoughts, try to put us into a box that is too small and which emphasises the negative aspects of ourselves. THis box may suit them (at least for now) but it no-longer suits us -in fact it is precisely why we suffer and 'go in the wrong direction'.
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
...ok, I don't think I expressed my self clearly. So, I'll explain a bit more what I mean...

Anything that 'fits in' that defines what is real, acceptable, balanced, normal, good, etc... was all based upon bringing what was before seen as 'bad' and 'good' together.

What I mean by 'thought boxes' is perspective of what 'good' and 'bad' are. When our current box (perspective) has become too small for our emotions, we try to fit something too big into something now too small. This will cause a person to experience extremes of good and bad, and this can easily become experiencing more of the bad only.

One way of understanding this is one's experience with bullies -and how some people like to 'hold on' to their 'good side' by making others seem 'bad'. They have come across change like the person they pick on and out of fear and lack of understanding, they hold-on to their original perception of themselves because they do not wish to experience the bad side of life.

When a person can accept the bad with the good emotionally, this follows with a new perspective and a 'new good'. They can finally control what happens to them because they accept all aspects of their emotion and instead of supressing their emotions, they give enough freedom to them and are able to balance them out.

...maybe I just can't explain what I mean well enough. But I look at things in terms of change and this means that a person does have the potential to alter their thoughts to change their experience. Not looking at things in terms of change means that a person cannot change and is purely at the mercy of emotions.

(anyhow, maybe I'll write more clearly on another day :wink: )
 

allergic2kryptonit

Active member
savage beagle, how did you know you started with a clean slate as a kid? i mean, i'm trying to figure out if i was born depressed and anxious or if early childhood experiences made me that way. my slightly older brother is different from me (he's a bad-ass, is the only way to put it) - nothing bothers him and he does what he wants without second guessing himself. we experienced much of the same "traumas" but not completely. i wonder if i'm just too emotional genetically, or if i learned to be that way and can unlearn it - i'm tired of feeling like an emotional wuss!!!
 

savage_beagle

Well-known member
my long winded answer.

allergic2kryptonit: I can recall how i was as a young boy, always on the move, curious about everything, laffing and giggling, pretty much carefree . Now, as a child, you are greatly influenced by your enviroment and the people in it. That normally means your home, parents and siblings. You sleep 8 hours, spend 7 hours in school, and the remainder at home. In my situation, i had parents that argued a lot and would not speak to each other for weeks/months at a time. My older brothers (big age gap) were closest with each other, and occasionally would step in and be ''fatherlike''. One of those brothers would sometimes take me to a movie or restaraunt, or take me and buy me jeans or something. I didnt realize it till much later (i grew up thinking it was normal) that he was and still is a very negative person who spewed out a constant stream of hate and contempt (two-faced). As my father didnt pay any interest in my upbringing and this brother hated my father, i looked up to him as a replacement father. I make it sound like my own father ran away..nah...he could always be found in front of the tv. This man was a very selfish jerk, who yelled and criticized too much. HE put down my mother often , threatened to leave her , showed her no affection and was a cheap prick..often discouraging and refusing attempts to try new things, with comments like --''you wont finish it!''--''you will just waste my money''--''stop bothering me before i...''. There was always tension in my house as for many years him and my brother didnt talk, and i was filled with fear at the dinner table if a fight was gonna erupt. My mother was and is always an angel...sweet natured and with a great sense of humor. She has grade 2 education, a very nice simple person (not stupid, just a kind loving person) but she filled our minds with her own anxiety. When you grow up in a household like this and you are rarely spoken to with enthusiasm for life or in positive ways, when your life consists of going grocery shopping with your parents , going to school, eating, sleeping and watching your older brothers playing poker with their friends..you become greatly influenced. The tv becomes your friend, and ocassionally if your lucky, a relative will take you in for the weekend or you might get a chance to go on a school day field trip, only to come back to the same old negative crap. This is why i post numerous things on negative and positive thinking, as the negative enviroment and people led to sadness and depression/anxiety. I learned my life lessons well and those memories are in the past. The past 2 years i have been wiping my slate clean, going back as best as i can to the time where anything was possible and life was amazing and interesting. There is more to my story then i mentioned above, and some would ended up being in a mental hospital or jail, high on drugs and alcohol to soothe their pains. Maybe its true about being an aries...a warrior, a survivor....cuz i always come out on top no matter what bullshit gets tossed my way. :wink: And thats a fact! :D
 

allergic2kryptonit

Active member
thanks very much for sharing that. yeah, i have a lot of bad memories from childhood, which i kinda forgot about for awhile. but now my dad is dying from cancer, and all these bad memories kinda float through my mind. i feel guilty for time wasted being angry with my dad, then i get angry thinking he was the adult and he should've made our relationship better. i won't go into any specifics, there's just pain there and i feel pathetic for not letting it go a long time ago...

i'm in therapy now, and hope to climb out of this pit of negativity i've dug for myself....
 

allergic2kryptonit

Active member
thanks very much for sharing that. yeah, i have a lot of bad memories from childhood, which i kinda forgot about for awhile. but now my dad is dying from cancer, and all these bad memories kinda float through my mind. i feel guilty for time wasted being angry with my dad, then i get angry thinking he was the adult and he should've made our relationship better. i won't go into any specifics, there's just pain there and i feel pathetic for not letting it go a long time ago...

i'm in therapy now, and hope to climb out of this pit of negativity i've dug for myself....
 
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