So if CBT really works...

[Tal]

Hi, I would like to hear if CBT can "cure" SAD. Cure as in quell the chronic anxiety and even forgetting that you have SAD. If CBT can really do that, dosn't that prove that anxiety disorders such as this one is really a problem concerning distorted thought patterns and not biochemistry. I was great relieved to hear that former anti-depressants such as Nardil could more or less fully treat SAD, but at the same time thouroughly shaken about the thought that we are slaves of our brain. Now that Nardil has be reformulated, it seems the future is uncertain for those who seek relief through the biochemical way. SAD apparently is not "just" a matter of a Serotonin deficiency,. but neurotransmitters such as dopamine and GABA seem to but of just as much importance. And this is the neurotransmitters a coarse antidepressant such as nardil could target. My question is, can CBT do the same? Raise serotonin and GABA to make you relaxed? increase Noradrenalin and dopamine to make you motivated and give you your energy back?

 

[shield]

If you have a naturally lower level of brain chemicals such as serotonin e.t.c. then CBT alone will be insufficient. You will also need medication otherwise you will still find yourself prone to mental illnesses and relapses. If you take medication to sort this out you will probably still need CBT because you probably have fallen into patterns of avoidance and negative thinking due to your lowered neurotransmitter levels, these will need to be remedied.

 

[Tal]

But we can't know whether we have naturally lower levels of neurotransmitters or our early age distorted thinking changes our bain chemistry. UNfortunately psychiatry don't have tests to measure the your levels of Serotonin, dopamine, Gaba Etc.

It's still all highly theoritical

 

[Lexmark]

The hole medication for SAD is bullshit
You can change everything with the mind
People like buddhist i bet if they had there brains looked at would have higher levals of serotonin and wat not b4 they started meditating and stuff
People just want the easy way out with meds

 

[Tal]

I'd say perhaps´that's a bit narrowminded. I wouldn't say that it is bullshit, but many sufferes of depression and anxiety emphasise neurotransmitters too much, and therefore ignore what they actually themselves can do in life.

But as you mention. Buddhists are great examples of what the human mind can do to the brain. Buddhits are a great source on the mind/brain/body connection and we can all learn much from them.

 

[sabbath92002]

Meds and CBT didn't work for me, but ACT does. ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) has a lot in common with Buddhism. Both use mindfulness and both concede that human suffering is ubiquitous. Modern science would like to "cure" everything with a pill. But the truth is life will always contain death and suffering and no pill will ever be able to "cure" the human condition.

The Buddhist Channel - Lotus Therapy

 

[Len]

What came first: the chicken or the egg.

Has it been proven that a chemical imbalance leads to psychological problems or whether psychological problems leads to chemical imbalance?

In other words, perhaps poor mood, anxiety and depression results in poor serotonin/dopamine levels in the brain. Not the other way around. Medication would therefore only be targeting the problem rather than the cause.

At the end of the day, we can put a man on the moon and develop nuclear bombs but we are fucked if we can solve the enigma of anxiety disorders. Doh!

I am just putting it out there. I have no idea.

 

[Lexmark]

We really know nothing about the brain
I know someone who had Electric shock therapy for depression
this was in 2007!
peole dun even know its still around

 

[Rabindranath]

Apparently Electroshock Therapy is coming back. I guess doctors have found new, better uses for it... I can't be bothered to look up an article right now but I remember reading something about it recently.

I tried Buddhism, positive thinking, meditation. None of it worked. Meds worked. I'm going with the meds.

 

[villacjs]

I have done both CBT as well as taking meds. Both work, well somewhat anyway, which method works the best is down to the individual. I think without meds I would never have beaten depression which also has an effect on SA/SP. CBT seems to help a bit but not as much as the meds (for me personally). The things you learn with CBT I have found difficult to apply in real word situations when I need to use them while the meds do their thing without you trying. Hence I rate meds the best, but like I said it is solely down to the individual. Therefore a combination of the two is the best bet for most people.

 

[Lexmark]

Apparently Electroshock Therapy is coming back. I guess doctors have found new, better uses for it... I can't be bothered to look up an article right now but I remember reading something about it recently.

I tried Buddhism, positive thinking, meditation. None of it worked. Meds worked. I'm going with the meds.

Yeah so you tried it ?
Like fat people try excersise and then giv up
Its something you have to stick 2

 

[jennismortal]

CBT is based on the theory a thought or idea must precede a mood, meaning there must be something that a person thinks that leads them to feel a certain way. This, in turn, will lead to the way in which people act. It also says that the way in which people act is heavily influenced by the way that they see themselves and the way that they think others see them.
CBT is an effective method of treating various types of problems. It is relatively short-term and gives people many skills that can be applied to every situation, even after treatment has finished. CBT is especially effective when combined with pharmacological (drug) treatments because they both work together to improve the symptoms. It has even been shown that CBT can change the way the brain works in much the same way as medications. Even in the absence of drug therapy, or if someone is hesitant to begin drug therapy, CBT alone often provides a good treatment.

 

[Liberty]

Hi, I would like to hear if CBT can "cure" SAD. Cure as in quell the chronic anxiety and even forgetting that you have SAD. If CBT can really do that, dosn't that prove that anxiety disorders such as this one is really a problem concerning distorted thought patterns and not biochemistry. I was great relieved to hear that former anti-depressants such as Nardil could more or less fully treat SAD, but at the same time thouroughly shaken about the thought that we are slaves of our brain. Now that Nardil has be reformulated, it seems the future is uncertain for those who seek relief through the biochemical way. SAD apparently is not "just" a matter of a Serotonin deficiency,. but neurotransmitters such as dopamine and GABA seem to but of just as much importance. And this is the neurotransmitters a coarse antidepressant such as nardil could target. My question is, can CBT do the same? Raise serotonin and GABA to make you relaxed? increase Noradrenalin and dopamine to make you motivated and give you your energy back?

Does this change if you developed SP all of the sudden and didn't used to have it? I never had it until I was 25 years old (I'm 26 now) and I'm hoping CBT will get me back to normal. I definitely have Social Phobia and I don't think it's possible for my Serotonin levels to suddenly drop one day coincidentally at the same time that I was experiencing a traumatic situtation of being negatively judged by peers for an 8 month period.

 

[DillJenkins]

I have been trying CBT and medicine for aboot 4-5 years I believe. I had social anxiety for like 12 years before seeking treatment and this really ****ed my brain up bad.

I think CBT works better for people that have not let their anxiety fester for many years. It seems that its much easier to break and refute the negative belief systems that keep social anxiety going with early treatment.

I have tried many of the conventional medicines for social anxiety and none helped except for benzo's. The downside to this is that I eventually grow tolerant to the effects and dependent on the pills. I would be fine with getting dependent on them if tolerance wasnt an issue for me but it seems pointless to take medicine just for avoiding withdrawal.

I am meeting with psychiatrist again this week and I am hoping to get put on Nardil. I really feel like MAOI drugs are my last hope at leading a functional life.

 

[PisceanWisdom]

Hi, I would like to hear if CBT can "cure" SAD. Cure as in quell the chronic anxiety and even forgetting that you have SAD. If CBT can really do that, dosn't that prove that anxiety disorders such as this one is really a problem concerning distorted thought patterns and not biochemistry. I was great relieved to hear that former anti-depressants such as Nardil could more or less fully treat SAD, but at the same time thouroughly shaken about the thought that we are slaves of our brain.

Distorted thought patterns are biochemistry. This is a complex philosophical question, and not one that has been answered. The point is, is that drugs aren't necessary for SAD, unless you are completely disconnected from your anxiety, and don't even know where it's coming from and want to get rid of it. But I think that's more in the direction of panic disorders. Choose the therapy that you think makes sense, that you can see working for you. Maybe even make up your own system, if it works.

I agree with Len.

As for the festering, I think that your attachment to your anxiety means a lot more than the length of time you've had it. Maybe even the ability of your brain to compartmentalize, and the practice you've had at doing so.