Screw the meds! Screw the doctors!

[RedRibbons]

Has anyone taken this approach? Pure self-help? Perhaps the occasional discussion with a psychologist..

ALSO! How long have you had social anxiety? And how debilitating is it for you?

**P.S. I don't know if this should be in the treatment section. It's just some general questions aboot social anxiety.**

 

[Doomed2Die]

I avoid meds and anykind of mind/state altering type gear, anything even herbal. If im going to fight SP I'll fight it as natural as possible, visceral and raw. Of course I fail and do whatever to escape but I prefer not to.

A few years back I took therapy someplace I really can't remember, it only validated my own personal system and methods of thought. I'm looking into more therapy at the moment.

I took meds a few years back and it done merry hell on my mind, in that I didnt think very freely and was sedated, night terrors also, pretty scarring stuff but I think I have overcome it.

I have probally had it since secondary school, totally shattered anything I was working on and simply erased me from society and for some reason I have had terrible sleep issues forever since. Um, still a prisoner at the moment but I think (I hope) im gradually fighting it. (Lately im using herbal tea drink things to desprately help sleep, no dice)

Prehaps the worst thing without meds is depression since its impossible to even begin to fight SP without breaking free of depression first.

 

[Infected_Malignity]

Never taken meds in my entire life (besides say, minor painkillers like Tylenol). Never even been to a doctor (besides the two times I've gotten school physicals). However, those who frequently visit the doctor and take pills are usually the most depressed and/or ill people I've ever met.

Yeah, you can definitely get over SA/shyness on your own. I've had shyness my entire life (until recently), and I'm beginning to feel so much better about it all. There's more ways than one to kill it off, and I highly suggest not shortening the length of your life and becoming dependent on a drug to do it for you.

 

[TAMPA-BAY]

For me the cognative stuff(keeping track of your automatic thoughts) has been the most solid treatment for me. I tried the stareing in front of the mirror and saying posotive stuff method only to find my self panicing once I leave the house and have to face the situation.

I have found that constantly monotoring whats goes thru my head before an anxiety provokeing situation helps me because It lets me see which kind of thinking are unproductive and limiting. Its kind of hard to explain so just do a search on automatic thoughts.

 

[sabbath92001]

Has anyone taken this approach? Pure self-help? Perhaps the occasional discussion with a psychologist..

ALSO! How long have you had social anxiety? And how debilitating is it for you?

**P.S. I don't know if this should be in the treatment section. It's just some general questions aboot social anxiety.**

I've tried prozac, paxil, zoloft, serzone, celexa, klonopin, wellbutrin, etc. and they were worthless. On prozac I was manic, on zoloft I had a seizure, serzone may have caused liver damage, etc. One doctor even wanted to give me electro-shock therapy. Needless to say I don't use or recommend meds or doctors anymore.

For the last two and a half years I been doing ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) and it has helped me a great deal. I've had SAD (Social Anxiety Disorder) since I can remember (back in kindergarten I guess). ACT is the only thing that stopped my downward spiral and reversed it. I still have SAD but I'm dealing with it much better now. I'm working, studying and partying again. I recommend ACT over CBT because in ACT we don't have to correct our "irrational" thoughts and feelings, we just notice them and move on. Also ACT can be done using a $20 self-help workbook.

 

[LonelyGirl]

I think it's best for me not to use meds or see psychologists, but it might help other people, I don't know. I was forced into a few therapy sessions for selective mutism at the age of 10. I didn't believe that anybody who had not experienced what I was going through could help me, so I just sat there silently criticising every word that came out of their mouths.

I find that the best way forward is to keep meeting new people. I feel more comfortable with people who don't know me as 'the quiet one'.

I think I have always had SA in some form or another, but I didn't even know there were meds for it until I was 16. I never considered taking any though. I hate the thought that I am not in control of my own mind. I suppose I'm not in complete control of my mind - the SA controls part of it, but I will continue to fight it alone and eventually I will win.

 

[RedRibbons]

Wow, I enjoy reading what all of you have to say, and I hope more people post about their experiences without medication or doctors.

I'm doing the same thing. I was given paxil and effexor, they made me feel flat and it sucked so I got off them. I also went to a psychologist for a little while but that didn't work so well either. She wanted to do CBT and then there was another one who did this weird tapping thing that, I don't know how it helped.. Some weird form of hypnosis? Now I'm going to a psychologist again, just cause, well for a moment I couldn't control my obsessive thoughts, now they are okay though since coming to this site. lol.

ANYWAY! I've been doing this alone about 99% of the time.. for about 7 years. It's funny to look back and see the difference from how it started quiet and progressed into this big annoying nuisance that I work on every day. I think you guys might know what I mean.

Anyway!! I hope more people come to this thread and post about their experiences. Even if you are on meds, or seeing doctors.. Or thinking about stopping medication and whatnot! k!

I wish everyone good luck! I know it can be REALLY hard sometimes..

 

[TAMPA-BAY]

You know its very intresting redribon. What you said about coming to this site and others like it.

The absolute bigges progress that I ve made actually occured when I joined this site and found out that there were others. These sites have helped me more than anything else that I have tried so far.

 

[flake__]

Yeh this site is such a good idea. And good topic...i tried Effexor, and one other anti-depressant...they did not really work just made me feel detached from my emotions without increasing my mood, and oddly made me suicidal! Then i came off the pills by accident (ran out suddenly and didnt bother to go back) and i was like, what the hell was i thinking?!

But i think different people respond differently. Just something to be aware of i guess! Sometimes pills can help to reduce the anxiety, but they don't seem to totally cure it.

I tried herbal 'calm' pills once...A Quiet Life i think they were called. They actually work, but they are a sedative so you get tired. And you have to take like 7 a day. But i guess it's an alternative.

 

[RedRibbons]

Hi. We're not covered. Mine costs $135 an hour :/ It's disgusting and makes me not want to go. lol.I might cancel. :x

 

[Snerkable]

Lol. Wow. A lot of people here seem to be medicine phobic! (perhaps with good cause) There are a lot of bad side effects with SSRI'S and benzodiazepines, but I'll tell you one thing. Prozac has helped me IMMENSELY. A lot of it has to do with your intitial expectations, and there is evidence that switching between SSRI's if a current one is ineffective is beneficial.

In terms of side effects and safety ~ it's hard to differentiate between side effects caused directly by prozac or not... as the mind can create any physical symptom and the old adage that if a side effect wasn't there to begin with suddenly turns up after starting a medication isn't always true as sometimes during a regiment a person with anxiety (or not) will focus in on what the medicine is doing to them to a hypersensitive degree and create their own symptoms.

Also, a lot of reports dealing with loss of libido/lethargy... etc.. coincidentally are common symptoms of depression i.e. what the medicine is prescribed for.

Long term studies show little evidence of malicious activity to the brain in adults with SSRI'S... however, it remains to be seen the effect on growing brains i.e. children.. so far no considerable alteration has been documented, and this makes sense given the fact that discontinuation of an SSRI usually results in a deterioation to a previous neurotic state.

I used to suffer from intense obsessions from OCD... and prozac at 20 mg completely eliminated these from me... I'd say for social phobia it has helped given me at least a 15% reduction in symptoms... but I have other complications I need to overcome psychologically i.e. my depression caused from daily panic attacks (from when I discontinued my medicine) before I can aggressively attack my SP.

 

[phoenix1]

Are you really trying to argue against the side-effects of these medications? These drugs have much harsher side-effects than what they let on. How about becoming permanently numb even when after stopping the medication? Thats not exactly a high point.

Libido loss just a coincidence and not a side-effect? Ha! Its virtually guaranteed to happen in some form. In fact they prescribe these medications to people who experince PE.

The worst side-effect of these drugs is that they may take away some of the pain, but they also take away the joy. The people who made these drugs dont know what the hell they are doing. How can any drug possibly distinguish between pain and joy? They are inseparable. The more you take one away the more the other goes away too. It might be one reason why our hunger, our sex drive and everything else like that goes down as well.

Medication is never the cure. Its never the fix. At best it can mask or cover, or numb your brain and body enough to cut some of the symptoms. Those symptoms are there because your brain is trying to tell you something, altering the chemical makeup will not change it, but hide it and make it worse when your body becomes immune to that poisionous shit or when you have to finally stop.

 

[Snerkable]

Yes. Yes I am. A lot of people greatly exaggerate the side effects which puts off people from seeking the treatment that would potentially break the cycle of their pain. Permanently numb after discontinuation? It's not like these medications are permanently affecting the neurons or altering the physical structures of the brain. Any side-effect after a reasonable discontinuation period is purely psychological, often times traced to depression or psychosomatic neurosis. I've been on the medication for years and haven't experienced such dramatic side effects. When I went off the medicine for a few months I began experiencing panic attacks due to an immense amount of stress ( I mean a lot.. I should never have tried to do so much).... which set a cycle of chronic pain and depression... but since I've been back on the medicine, i've felt extremely better and a lot of physical symptoms I've felt are starting to fade.

Now, obviously people will experience different side effects, and for people to whom the negatives outweigh the positives I'd agree that taking the medicine or the particular brand perhaps isn't for them... but due to the fact that there is a variance of symptoms demonstrates that you can not categorize all SSRI'S into one definition as universally bad. They're very much individualistic drugs.

The whole underlying assumption is that you're experiencing more pain than joy hence the need to take the drugs. It doesn't take away your ability to feel these emotions, believe me... I feel both in intense amounts... it works by balancing your chemicals to a more normal degree as seen with people without the mental illness... sort of like how lithium balances out people with bipolar disorder. I take it you've had a bad run in with a particular SSRI... but again, it's hard to differentiate between placebo effect and actual drug effects in people who are hypersensitive or hyperaware.

Libido loss can be coincidental, or it can be caused by the SSRI. In much the same way... as serotonin is the base regulator of all things sexual... again, it's individualistic.

It's definitely not posionous. It has about the same lethality as tylenol.

 

[phoenix1]

Are you fucking kidding me?

Who do you think you are to tell me what I have or have not experienced personally and from those around me. You sound like you are scripted right out of the drug companies.

If you want to believe that there is no long term effects from these drugs, go ahead - Its your life. This isnt some 'bad experience' with an SSRI. I live with this every day of my life.

The drug companies tell us it stops the pain and funny enough its side effects are lower libido, lower appetite..and yes lower joy. The imbalance is NEVER that the person feels more pain than joy – that’s the kind of shit the drug companies tell us. The truth is that the person is focused on the pain, but the capacity for joy is still there. Taking away the capacity to feel pain, also takes away the capacity to feel joy. You cannot have it any other way.

Sometimes these drugs are necessary on a short-term emergency type situation. To actually think that they are the long-term fix or cure is beyond sickening. Social phobia, depression, OCD are not virus’s or ‘chemical imbalances’ like the drug companies say, we are just people trying to adapt to the new world around us. Funny enough, we suffer because our brains are actually working and trying to help us out the best it can. The symptoms come out because we are trying to adapt too much or trying to hide too much. The symptoms are actually our brains trying to help us. Think for a second (if it’s even possible you for) what that means to medicate our brains in an effort to stop that process.

Last I heard, Tylenol doesn’t alter your brain chemistry.

 

[Polarity]

stop taking start questioning...chemical companies are making us ill so that we pay them to make us better....see chem trails...see phenylaninine...see artificial preservatives...see secret world order & mindcontrol... :twisted:

 

[Snerkable]

Are you fucking kidding me?

Lyke no dawg.

Who do you think you are to tell me what I have or have not experienced personally

I'm your friendly neighborhood spiderman.

and from those around me. You sound like you are scripted right out of the drug companies.

Well they do make me movies..
I don't recall ever saying you didn't experience your negative symptoms.. I do seem to recall saying that it's unfortunate you've had a bad run in, but that doesn't prove anything, as I've had a very good case... I was merely saying that it's anecdotal and rightfully so in a sensitive area as is psychology. Do side effects exist? Yes! Which is why if one is experiencing extreme difficulties that should either switch medications or stop completely... does this mean that everyone is going to have horrible circumstances? No... In fact, a large portion of people who experience bad side effects with one drug do completely better on another..which is why you can't just categorize these drugs into one universal category of damnation... and also why, a level of variance is to be expected as I have stated previously, this is a sensitive area of psychology... the statistical read outs by the NIMH and FDA studies indicate that majority of people will experience positive symptoms over their negative ones... to help them live fulfilling lives. I know this personally.

If you want to believe that there is no long term effects from these drugs, go ahead - Its your life. This isnt some 'bad experience' with an SSRI. I live with this every day of my life.

I'll believe what the FDA and NMHI have been reporting for the many decades that these drugs have been out.

The drug companies tell us it stops the pain and funny enough its side effects are lower libido, lower appetite..and yes lower joy. The imbalance is NEVER that the person feels more pain than joy – that’s the kind of shit the drug companies tell us. The truth is that the person is focused on the pain, but the capacity for joy is still there. Taking away the capacity to feel pain, also takes away the capacity to feel joy. You cannot have it any other way.

Huh? I haven't had any loss of libido... and I still feel joy and excitement. Yes the ability to utilize CBT to focus on more positive things is another viable treatment.

Sometimes these drugs are necessary on a short-term emergency type situation. To actually think that they are the long-term fix or cure is beyond sickening. Social phobia, depression, OCD are not virus’s or ‘chemical imbalances’ like the drug companies say, we are just people trying to adapt to the new world around us. Funny enough, we suffer because our brains are actually working and trying to help us out the best it can. The symptoms come out because we are trying to adapt too much or trying to hide too much. The symptoms are actually our brains trying to help us. Think for a second (if it’s even possible you for) what that means to medicate our brains in an effort to stop that process.

Jeez, for someone so "numb" you sure do get fiesty.

Last I heard, Tylenol doesn’t alter your brain chemistry.

Which is why it'll never be used to treat OCD, depression, and anxiety disorders. Altering brain chemistry doesn't equate to being stupid, mind controlled, and reigned in by the "man" btw. Unless you can't metabolize the drug, and get subsequent serotonin syndrome, there won't be any permanent side effects physiologically speaking.

 

[Butterflies]

I recommend ACT over CBT because in ACT we don't have to correct our "irrational" thoughts and feelings.

I have been doing CBT for 12 months - it has changed my life. I hadn't heard of ACT but I'm interested to know more. I'll check out the link.

I have found there are alot of other things that can improve SA also. Like - diet (certain foods and drinks) , exercise, spirituality...

Thanks.

 

[cosmosis]

Snerkable,

You go by what the FDA and the NIMH say? Yeah, they've never been wrong before. Sadly, some people believe anything they are told.

 

[Tiptoe]

Hi RR, everyone

I am new here, but not new to SAD. I have struggled with it to varying degrees all of my life, but never had a name for it. I am probably older than most people on here (from what I've read so far) and recently I started to google some symptoms that seemed to have got worse. I have been having escalating problems with other people (over sensitive and over-analysing their reactions to me) and I've been avoiding the phone, going on public transport, to social events etc. I also have lived with an almost indescribable fear of public speaking which restricted my career advancement and has "blocked" me in many areas of my life. My lifestyle has meant I could avoid these things that other people take for granted. I have not taken drugs for my anxiety, but I have used alcohol since a young age. I would quell my social phobias with it as I dulled all my senses. Of course, the day after, my anxiety was far worse, and totally debillitating if I had drunk heavily.

However, alcohol started to become a problem for me and I quit it cold turkey about a year ago, having no choice healthwise. Since then, the SA that I managed to control with booze, is real and raw. I have come here to find out more and how I can change things. Already, reading about how others have helped themselves, has helped me. I know now that I have to do something before my condition gets worse. I am determined to beat it. My social anxiety would actually prevent me from getting help from a Dr or psych. I admire all of you who have bravely gone into therapy. As for drugs, I guess it depends on the individual and the severity of symptoms?

I do find that learning to meditate has helped me.

So that's me. So far, no Docs, no drugs. But I never say never.

Tiptoe.