Meds vs. CBT vs. ACT

Meds say your problem is chemical based and the drug companies know which chemicals you need more (or less) of.

CBT says your problem is thought based and society can help you change your thoughts to "positive" and "rational".

ACT says your problem is perspective based and you can distance yourself from thoughts and feelings and then take action.
 

RedAugust

New member
It's all of the above imo - brain chemistry you can't ignore, but most people's problems is "deeper" than that, meaning, behaviorally and psychological. thus CBT. And ACT - imo always relevent. I think making each of these absolute to its own "category" is just silly. So - imo no competition really, and depends on YOU.
 
You can call it "silly" if you want. But I really think meds r useless and dangerous and CBT is flawed. If someone wants to focus on something that will target avoidance then ACT is the way. I don't trust drug companies at all, and society is full of shiite. So yes it really all comes down to YOU.
 

creznor

Member
sabbath92002 said:
You can call it "silly" if you want. But I really think meds r useless and dangerous and CBT is flawed. If someone wants to focus on something that will target avoidance then ACT is the way. I don't trust drug companies at all, and society is full of shiite. So yes it really all comes down to YOU.

You think CBT is flawed? You DO know that thoughts precede feelings, and that meds ultimately work by shrinking the thoughts that cause anxiety and depression, right? CBT has the same effect, except that you have do the work by breaking the negative habits of thinking yourself, and making an attitude adjustment.

CBT is a smart & intuitive approach, while ACT is more spiritual-based. The reason why some people don't have any success with CBT can be attributed to two reasons: 1) it takes a smart and intuitive person to fully understand a smart and intuitive approach, and unfortunately, not many people are truly smart and intuitive. They don't have the cognitive capacity to analyze their thought patterns objectively and make changes, or to be introspective. For them, meds are the answer. Meds provide therapy that require no applied mental effort whatsoever. And 2) They're lazy, self-indulgent, and want a quick fix. Most of the time, it's a combination of these two reasons.

Go to ANY good, experienced psychiatrist right now, and he'll regurgitate everything I just said. It's the truth.

Btw, I always see you promoting ACT on here. While I'm not going to praise or criticize it, my only question to you is... if it really is so "awesome" like you make it out to be, why the hell do you keep posting here?
 
creznor said:
You think CBT is flawed?

yes

creznor said:
You DO know that thoughts precede feelings, and that meds ultimately work by shrinking the thoughts that cause anxiety and depression, right?

no, most thoughts and feelings are biological and one does not necessarily create the other, and meds don't work at all, let alone "shrink" thoughts

creznor said:
CBT has the same effect, except that you have do the work by breaking the negative habits of thinking yourself, and making an attitude adjustment.

In ACT, thoughts are neither positive or negative, and we don't try to control them or judge them.

creznor said:
CBT is a smart & intuitive approach, while ACT is more spiritual-based. The reason why some people don't have any success with CBT can be attributed to two reasons: 1) it takes a smart and intuitive person to fully understand a smart and intuitive approach, and unfortunately, not many people are truly smart and intuitive. They don't have the cognitive capacity to analyze their thought patterns objectively and make changes, or to be introspective. For them, meds are the answer. Meds provide therapy that require no applied mental effort whatsoever. And 2) They're lazy, self-indulgent, and want a quick fix. Most of the time, it's a combination of these two reasons.

So people who try CBT and don't get better are just lazy and dumb?

creznor said:
Go to ANY good, experienced psychiatrist right now, and he'll regurgitate everything I just said. It's the truth.

Just because you and a quack believe something, doesn't make it the truth.

creznor said:
Btw, I always see you promoting ACT on here. While I'm not going to praise or criticize it, my only question to you is... if it really is so "awesome" like you make it out to be, why the hell do you keep posting here?

Because I want to. I'm not "cured", but ACT has helped me, and I think ACT can help others too.
 

Argamemnon

Well-known member
I'm positive that mental illness has a variety of causes ranging from bad life experiences, negative thinking to biological or genetic predisposition.
 

creznor

Member
Again, the fact that you spend so much time posting on a social anxiety forum is proof that ACT is not really as effective as you make it out to be. I don't think that anybody who has made a noticeable improvement with social anxiety would ever want to visit the very forum that reminds them of the disorder, unless it's to help other sufferers out, and you're clearly not doing that. Either that, or you work for a company that sells ACT-based therapy online.

The problem I have with ACT is that it's like the Intelligent Design of psychology. It takes clinically proven, scientific ideas (CBT) and ties them in with spiritual ideas (Budhism). If you ask me, I would say that the inventor of the approach just did this to sell and make money. He knew that most people used spirituality and religion to give them a sense of guidance and meaning to their lives, so he capitalized on this fact in order to sell these "new" ideas to a much larger audience.

Anxiety and depression are nothing more than bad habits of insecurity that you pick up. There are obvious genetic predispositions, but that doesn't mean you have to be a slave to your mind for the rest of your life. It means that the person has a lower threshold for susceptibility. That's all. If you have a habit of smoking, what are you going to do, tell yourself it's ok, become one with your habit, and then continue to fill your lungs with harmful cigarette smoke hoping that you quit? No, you're going to starve the habit until the feelings to smoke go away. That's how I view anxiety and depression, that's what seems logical, and that's what has worked for me and many of my friends.
 
creznor said:
Again, the fact that you spend so much time posting on a social anxiety forum is proof that ACT is not really as effective as you make it out to be. I don't think that anybody who has made a noticeable improvement with social anxiety would ever want to visit the very forum that reminds them of the disorder, unless it's to help other sufferers out, and you're clearly not doing that. Either that, or you work for a company that sells ACT-based therapy online.

Why are you judging me? What have I ever done to you?
 

creznor

Member
sabbath92002 said:
creznor said:
Again, the fact that you spend so much time posting on a social anxiety forum is proof that ACT is not really as effective as you make it out to be. I don't think that anybody who has made a noticeable improvement with social anxiety would ever want to visit the very forum that reminds them of the disorder, unless it's to help other sufferers out, and you're clearly not doing that. Either that, or you work for a company that sells ACT-based therapy online.

Why are you judging me? What have I ever done to you?

I did a search on your name, and it seems like every other post you make is promoting ACT, which is funny because if it were really effective, you wouldn't live your life sitting behind a computer posting on a social anxiety forum, of all forums on the internet.

And then you're knocking off CBT and saying it's "flawed," when statistics clearly state that people who undergo CBT improve by 70-95%.
 
creznor said:
I did a search on your name, and it seems like every other post you make is promoting ACT, which is funny because if it were really effective, you wouldn't live your life sitting behind a computer posting on a social anxiety forum, of all forums on the internet.

And then you're knocking off CBT and saying it's "flawed," when statistics clearly state that people who undergo CBT improve by 70-95%.

Maybe you should read Eckhart Tolle's "A New Earth" too.

http://eckharttolle.com/a_new_earth

http://www.thehappinesstrap.com
 

creznor

Member
Eckhart Tolle is a Jesus freak, if you didn't know.

Btw, what part of Miami do you live in? I'm near country walk.
 

villacjs

Well-known member
CBT is about challenging negative thinking patterns and finding alternatives that replace them. For myself it was good in the session with my psychologist but only partly so in the real world. The drugs IMO are better since they are there working away in the background. My advice is to try both and even give ACT a shot too.
 

rado31

Well-known member
When i look at my childhood , i was the happiest child alive - only there was that "detached" feeling that later cause social anxiety and later depression.

CBT Books are of course whole logical , but it is hard to implement that in your life - it would be like you are insulting your all previous experience , all your mind concluded ever.
Besides - that is not going to "attach" me to world. Even i myself gave up from trying to fit, to attach myself and instead of trying to entertain myself i try different: I was entertaining myself and others were kind of welcome first, but because of incredible mess going in my life - i became again SP-ic.

I hate only the thing that my mind is stubborn, even for the facts i recognize by experiencing life - it is hard for me to accept them.
Somebody wrote here "I love loving people" ; yes , i feel exactly like this ,but sorry for overgeneralization people are mostly scumm- " I would love to love people".

Even David Burns overgeneralized people , by thinking that CBT method is approachanle to anyone.
No, it is not. If you are really SP/Scared/Obsessed i dont believe that CBT can fix you . ANd not only that i dont beleive, according to statistic data- CBT can fix a problem only in 20-30 percents of SP-ics , and only if they begin treatment in puberty. WHich doesnt mean that you are not the lucky one.

I didnt know that Eckart Tholle is ACT. Anything that attacks feeling is good i think . But , i was really pissed and (hate that word) feeling retharded when reading this book . It was pretty obvious that author has no intelectual capacity for anything serious and that he has more luck than me.
 
from www.thehappinesstrap.com


‘Mindfulness’ is a hot topic in Western psychology: increasingly recognised as an effective way to reduce stress, increase self-awareness, enhance emotional intelligence, and effectively handle painful thoughts and feelings.

Although mindfulness has only recently been embraced by Western psychology, it is an ancient practice found in a wide range of Eastern philosophies, including Buddhism, Taoism and Yoga. Mindfulness involves consciously bringing awareness to your here-and-now experience with openness, interest, and receptiveness. Jon Kabat-Zinn, a world authority on the use of mindfulness training in the management of clinical problems, defines it as: "Paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and non-judgmentally."

Mindfulness is about waking up, connecting with ourselves, and appreciating the fullness of each moment of life. Kabat-Zinn calls it, "The art of conscious living." It is a profound way to enhance psychological and emotional resilience, and increase life satisfaction.

Definitions of Mindfulness

“Bringing one’s complete attention to the present experience on a moment-to-moment basis.” (Marlatt & Kristeller)

“Paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and non-judgmentally” (Kabat-Zinn).
“Consciously bringing awareness to your here-and-now experience, with openness, interest and receptiveness.” (The Happiness Trap)



The Benefits of Mindfulness

Practising mindfulness helps you:

* to be fully present, here and now
* to experience unpleasant thoughts and feelings safely
* to become aware of what you’re avoiding
* to become more connected to yourself, to others and to the world around you
* to increase self-awareness
* to become less disturbed by and less reactive to unpleasant experiences
* to learn the distinction between you and your thoughts
* to have more direct contact with the world, rather than living through your thoughts
* to learn that everything changes; that thoughts and feelings come and go like the weather
* to have more balance, less emotional volatility
* to experience more calm and peacefulness
* to develop self-acceptance and self-compassion



Mindfulness and Therapy

Mindfulness training has emerged as a powerful, evidence-based tool for enhancing psychological health. It has been clinically proven in a wide range of clinical disorders, including chronic pain, anxiety disorders, depression, PTSD, OCD, substance abuse, and borderline personality disorder.


Mindfulness & Coaching
Mindfulness is a hot topic in coaching. Experts increasingly recognise that developing mindfulness skills is an effective way to improve performance, reduce stress, enhance emotional intelligence, increase life satisfaction, and develop leadership skills. These experts include such luminaries as Daniel Goleman, author of Emotional Intelligence, and Richard Boyatzis, author of Resonant Leadership.

The ACT model, with its emphasis on mindfulness, values and action, is ideally suited for executive coaching, life coaching, and sports coaching. Values provide inspiration, motivation, and direction. Mindfulness skills provide many benefits, including the ability to reduce stress, rise above self-limiting beliefs, improve focus, develop self-awareness, facilitate calmness, and handle difficult emotions such as frustration, resentment, boredom and anxiety. ACT interventions can be incorporated into other coaching models, or ACT can be used as its own self-contained model.


Benefits of Mindfulness in Life and Work

The practise of mindfulness enables you to:

* improve focus and concentration
* increase self-awareness
* reduce the impact and influence of stressful thoughts and feelings
* facilitate better relationships
* catch self-defeating behaviours, and substitute more effective ones
* become aware of self-defeating thought processes, and 'let them go'

All of this boils down to 3 major benefits: improved performance, reduced stress, and greater satisfaction in work and life.

The Benefits of Mindfulness for Therapists & Coaches

* Facilitates empathy, compassion, and unconditional positive regard.
* Allows you to stay focused and present, even when your client is not.
* Helps you stay grounded, centred and composed, even in the midst of clients’ emotional turmoil
* Enables a healthy attitude to therapeutic outcomes: neither complacent nor overly-attached.
* Helps you maintain direction and focus for therapy.
* Increases your skills at observing your clients’ responses.
 
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