Look at it like This

[j_gingersnap]

The way I lowered my social anxiety was to put myself in the other people positions – Like : When i look at people: do I judge them, do I make fun of them, do I even care what these people are doing with their everyday lives – No – and this goes the other way.

 

[Waybuloo]

Hi,
That may make sense logically but someone like me, i can't control my symptoms and automatic fear response, I'm not even sure if that is possible.

 

[Jack-B]

This is great advice.

It's not easy to do because anxiety induces our mind to grasp strongly at the sense of 'me'.

That sense of 'me' while anxious is distorted, we take things and our self seriously, we think others are talking about us, we think we get funny looks and so on, all because anxiety has distorted the way we view our self.

This and 'what others think of me' are the two main mistaken conceptions a social phobic has.

What others think of me ( a conception in our mind ) induces a strong sense of 'me' ( a conception of our self or image based on our body and mind ). No one actually thinks of us at all, they think of their version of us ( conception in their mind ) so social phobia is actually a deceptive waste of time. End of story.

Jack

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Phantom,

Um, I like your suggestions and I agree with the interpretation that what you are doing is finding a way to lessen the degree to which you worry about your self. That thinking that, others don't bother focussing on you, so then why should you.

Regarding mothers ...I'm not the only one in my family to have found my mother a bit prying and over-bearing sometimes. (Then again, she grew up with a mother who was especially phobic and domineering.) And I would be lying to you if sometimes the way my mother seems to be 'observing everything I do' sometimes, doesn't bother me -it does sometimes. I figure that it is part of the 'anxious personality' to do this, to obsess over your children (and maybe especially given that they say that sometimes parents live through their children) and that to some extent, this pattern has been brought donw through the generations in the family.

I prefer to let go of what my mother does; she is in fact a pretty good mother, my mother; and for me, I think that part of my problem is more genetic, being innate characteristics that I was born with; which, nonetheless, I don't think are bad in and of themselves. I also think that it is wiser to let go of what others do wrong if possible, and instead look at how to change your own thinking, if for no other reason than that you have no control over what others do. (besides, with my mum, I figure that I can forgive her: you see, having my mum is nothing on the mother that she had -my grandmother was extremely controlling and domineering, so...)

I think that I was born extremely sensitive and self-concious. I think that these two tend to go together; that if you are very sensitive and get swept up easily in your emotions, that you therefore also would be prone to being self-concious. ...So your question to me has an answer like: the more sensitive a person is, the more worried of being judged and of pain they will have, just because they experience it more intensely; and they also get swept-up in what they feel and lose perspective because they are so caught-up in their own reactions.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi phantom,

my mother came over today and I got a dose of being bossed around and told 'the right way to do things'. ...what can you do? I suppose that I cannot say she is impatient with me, because she is actually pretty patient.

You mentioned having shizophrenia. An old friend of mine had this, and the thing with her is that she was something of a 'child star'. I wasn't the only one who adored her, she had oodles of charisma when she was young ; and despite the effect the disease had on her this still showed up.
As for finding one's will to live. I understand what you mean, since I've been going through the 'why me?/why should I have to go through all this hardship and be the outcast of normal society?' ...that I find especially daunting and hard to deal with.

If you want my solution to dealing with at least the shame part of having some kind of mental illness (the mental illness is enough, it's like the injury, but the stigma a person sometimes gets and even just cruel, judgmental persons -that's the insult) ...but, my way out of this feeling like a 'blotch on humanity', which sometimes I am amazed that I would feel this way about my self, but my remedy for this is to notice all the positive aspects to my presonality. I ask my self: is it such a coincidence that, for example, I am gifted and often praised, on my artistic abilities?

Also, my friend with a form of schizophrenia -she was amazing before she became ill. And I don't think that is a coincidence either.

I like to immerse my self in art as a kind of therapy. It gives more freedom to diversity; and one is allowed to just express whatever feelings they have regardless of whether these are 'right'. Notice also that in the art world, having a mental illness is almost a requisite for ability. Art is a world where disability goes with ability. ....and speaking of matriarchy; one good thing about such societies was that those with disabilities and illnesses where seen as 'special'. And they seem to say that where people are treated in such a way, the experience of mental illness is much better for everybody concerned. ...So there is one good thing. I guess it is the same, there is bad with the good for 'matriarchy and patriarchy' and also for things like disabilities and flaws.

To me, seeing my self in a way that observes what is good as well as bad helps me get past things more easily and at the very least I suppose that I don't find my self getting depressed. So maybe you could adopt this particular positive about the 'matriarchical' way of looking at things: see weakness as an indication of the presence of strength. And do your best to open your eyes and notice how this is true for everyone. Depression is when you feel worthless, so I don't have a perfect cure, but this way of viewing the world certainly helps ease the burden. ...why add insult to injury? life is hard enough, isn't it?!

I hope that 'trick' helps you. It helps me sometimes, when I can pull off looking at things in such a way.

Muffet

 

[Jack-B]

Phantom,

When I ask my teacher questions, he never replies directly. He takes me to a place in my mind where he knows the understanding is, very skillful. Meaning is found in our own mind, we must search for it or we learn nothing.

If you tell people how to overcome their sa/sp, they may not realize in their mind the solution because a lot of sa is about expectation. We expect a response and usually it’s not the desired response, so we cease to learn from what others are giving us, this is pride. We assume our way of looking at things is correct. So we become closed to what others are giving us. We don’t see their love because of our limited view.

My teachers understanding of the mind is way beyond my own but he gives me exactly what I need if I forget my expectation of a response, all responses are perfect if we check carefully. Even when no one responds, we can learn massively. When we expect a certain response or expect things to be a certain way all we are left with is pain and a non accepting world of frustration. Most things are pretty uncertain.

There are people who post on this web site who can lead us all out of misery, if we are willing to learn.

Jack

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Jack,

I just read your post and I was thinking to my self: this guy sounds like he's into spirituality or zen and the like. .....Interesting. I've been pretty interested in such things for a while.

The part where you mentioned how your teacher (do you mean by this your therapist or otherwise some really wise person?) leads you towards understanding but doesn't give you the answers. ....this is actually something I've been trying to understand.

You see, I'm pretty into spirituality and it's close relative psychology. And for a while I've been trying to understand such things, like concepts put forth in the Bible,among other books. And for a long time Jesus' explanation of why he talks in parables and doesn't just come out and say things, has been something that I've wanted to understand more (as opposed to the really vague understanding I have now).

He said something like:- "I talk in parables so the people will look and look and not see, listen and listen and not understand. Because a person who has something will be given more, but a person with nothing, even the little he has will be taken away from him."
...and I conclude that I am way too dense to actually get a real grip on why he does this and the reason behind it.

Anyhow, that is all I really wanted to say.

 

[Waybuloo]

This is great advice.

It's not easy to do because anxiety induces our mind to grasp strongly at the sense of 'me'.

That sense of 'me' while anxious is distorted, we take things and our self seriously, we think others are talking about us, we think we get funny looks and so on, all because anxiety has distorted the way we view our self.

This and 'what others think of me' are the two main mistaken conceptions a social phobic has.

What others think of me ( a conception in our mind ) induces a strong sense of 'me' ( a conception of our self or image based on our body and mind ). No one actually thinks of us at all, they think of their version of us ( conception in their mind ) so social phobia is actually a deceptive waste of time. End of story.

Jack

I think ur right, after all my mother always says i think i am the centre of the universe..someone doesnt respond the way i want and i take it to heart.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Phantom,

I'm not sure what Jack is saying to you. But, I wanted to tell you that my friend who had schizophrenia -she also for a year or two, experienced depression with a real lack of energy and great sense of apathy. She probably felt very similar to how you are feeling.

One thing that I recall her telling me, was that it perhaps had something to do with the medication that she was on. I think that she was searching for medication that would not affect her mood so drastically (she also put on a lot of weight because of it).

As for how she is now -I cannot give you a thorough description, but I can tell you that she has moved out of her old family home and lives independently, and that she has a regular job, and that the person who saw her recently told me that this friend seems to be doing pretty well for herself now.

...I hope that that gives you some hope. Because my friend, her name is Judy, was probably very similar to how you are now. But how people feel often changes over time.

What kind of support do you have? Do you have a councellor or therapist to help you? and are you on any medication? ....When I was disgnosed with social phobia, it was suggested that I could take medication. I figure that I would do this if I felt really bad most/all of the time -that perhaps I just needed a boost so that then I could sort out my thoughts more easily. I figure that sometimes a person needs a bit of help to allow them to get back on their feet again, so I still keep this option open if I should need to take it.

And what I said about my friend Judy is so true. I've always adored her. When we were little kids I always wondered why I wasn't as wonderful as she was. She had a magic about her. She was imaginative and highly charismatic -really precocious for her age. She still has that same 'spark' about her, eventhough when she was going through the apathy and depression she experienced earlier this spark seemed faint; but when she was feeling better, it was there again. She still has an unusual amount of charisma. ...anyhow, I'm sure that my envying her for being so lively and having something that I just didn't have and wanted, well I believe that her illness which broke her personality went somehow with her amazing personality. That a person can only have something really bad because they also have something really good. And you may think that this is too simple a belief to be true, but for some reason I'm positive of it.

So, when you are going through really bad experiences, try to remember who you are. See everything about a person and not just what can be seen right now. There is always more to people. ...And I'm just telling this to you because I know how hard things can be and that I would want someone to tell me this so that I can be encouraged. It isn't easy to believe that there is equal good with everything bad. But I know that it is true and the more encouragment a person gets for it the better, because it can be really easy to forget who you are when life is throwing the bad at you.

Thank you for your encouragement with my art. I'm only just realising again how good this is for me. I've neglected my art for a long time. It probably has something to do with my anxiety -and how I have been afraid to let my emotions be free and easily expressed. But now I want to be expressive. And it is a place where I feel like I can be my self and I dont have to worry about acting a certain way and controlliing my feelings. And, you know, I shouldn't make my art world like my everyday world -where I restrict my emotions and make my self nervous and have no fun or enjoyment.

In any case, thanks and hope things become better for you soon.

Muffet

 

[Jack-B]

Muffet,

Although my response was headed for Phantom, it is in actual fact for who ever reads it, obviously.

It’s a thing that constantly reminds me of how I should respond to posts because it’s not just one person reading it, there’s lots of people who will read it and it affects their minds as well. So I apologise if it was misleading and I was butting in on the post. It teaches me to be more skillful in replying to others. I will email you privately about spirituality.

Jack