Living like dead people.

With ignorance and arrogance success is insured.


  • Total voters
    2

klamm76

Well-known member
@ Sure_whynot Wrote
----

Jeg snakker norsk litt. Familien min er fra Norway/Scandinavia. haha

Du snakker svært godt engelsk, mye bedre da min norsk. lol

Im ikke prøver å være meningen folk på her, jeg bare ønsker å motivere dem til å være sterk og prøve å få fikset.

Hvor i Norge er du fra? hvis ok?

Sa jeg noe av det riktig? haha, Sorry if its not.


Haha,er du det :).Ja du snakker veldig godt norsk.Nesten helt korrekt :)

Du må ha gode røtter til den Norske familien din til og snakke så bra norsk,hvor er du ifra? Viss det er ok at jeg spør?

Noen småting her og der,akkurat som meg på engelsken.:)

Jeg forsto alt du mente.Men viss jeg skal sitere det du skrev helt riktig på norsk ,blir det slik:

Jeg snakker litt norsk.Familien min er fra Norge/Skandinavia.haha.

Du snakker svært godt engelsk,mye bedre enn min norsk.lol

Im=Jeg, prøver ikke å mene noe for folk her?(Ønsker ikke og støte noen:),jeg bare ønsker og motivere dem til og være sterkE og prøve og få fikset. (problemet=problem:)

Hehe, jeg er ifra stavanger:)

So now over to english again.Yes I agree on you on that.That you dont want to defend people in her,and only whish to motivate them to be strong and try to fix the problem:)

But I do to,but You just come very strong in here,an a little bit of arrogant,just like we dont know nothing on your firts post.I just took you up on that,and try to help,even if it NOT was what you wanted to here.

I have spoke my self to Gøran Chlaes Olson when I was about 22 years old.Dont know if i spelled his name correctly,long time ago.But he was the guy i Sweden that starte with ETS,and learned it to other people.The Guru on ETS.I am now 32 years old so this is about 11 years ago.And he only told me that this operation took about 20-30 minuts,and was very safe.90-95 succsessrate,and only side effeckt was minor sweating on their back!

Offcourse I was exstatic about this,halllleluja and so on:):):):):).But then I called a little around,spoke to one swedish guy who had done the ETS,and he allready told me then.Stay away,my life is worse know.And he also was suffering from foot/hand sweating. (Where do you sweat most btw?,underarms?)...So I spoke to other people to ,who had started a forum in norway who was for people who blushed,and took the same operation.I was warned there to,but many of them is satisfayied to.They dont regret.

But like I said,many has got their life from bad to worse,and there is NO going back!When its done,its done.Cutting or clamping.Destroyed for life.

They also called it a sweating nerve back them.Its not just a sweating nerve!!This nerve has also a huge impackt on the heart rythm,emotions,Mind,get your dick up,yea everything that the sympatic nervesystem is supoose to do.I just think its a gamblin,even if many people is satifayed.I am not a cowerd,and love to bet,gambel take challengers etc.But all that I have read up til now,Ijust not can ignore.

Another problem is that some are "luckier" than others.Some can feel a relife in 1 month,some 1 year,some 10 year and so on.I but suddenly your life can change after 5 year,and you have a living hell.

A fact about this surgeons is that they only follow up on ETS patient the first 6 mounths,and then they give a shit.That why I belive that their are caliming their sucsessrate so high.Ask them if they have follow them up 5-10 years later,and hear what they have to say then.Sure some are still satisfayed,but I think the sucsessrate had fallen at least 60-70& down the hill.!!

But best of luck,I dont blame you if you go ahead whit it.I understand the frustration myself.I have been there.:Ill take the chanse because I would rather be dead then live whit this hell,but I have change my mind about that now!


@ Kingflab

Don't be silly, we've all got the same problem, and it pisses us all of. Having a go at someone for not replying to a thread is just unnecessary.


Maybe I was a little silly,but Iam very sensitive like you guys on this HH shit,so when
[/code]
 

klamm76

Well-known member
ARG,,,wrouighergbilethgaeiltjkkkbnfigjgrrr about that. I came near a button here,and the post was sent to early Kingflab.

Kingflab wrote

Don't be silly, we've all got the same problem, and it pisses us all of. Having a go at someone for not replying to a thread is just unnecessary.
Maybe I was a little silly,but I am very sensitive like you guys on this HH shit,so when I answered him, he actually was a little arrogant,and called me for lurking around this forum,like I really was SILLY.

So hope for a little understanding.And I wont argue whit you on this minor thing,specialy when I totaly agree whit you on what you are saing.

But still I stand for what I said,even if it soundet a "bit" childishs,so I undertand your point.We are all in the same possitoin in some way at the end.
I just was a little eye for eye,and tooth for tooh on that one.Got what he derserved when he answered so nasty.

I am in here for 4 reasons!

1. Try to find a point that someone has wrote to find out of this HH shit,and maybe try to reasearch further myself on it.If i belive in the theory.

2.Try to help people who is asking for help about different things about Ionto,antiperspirants,botox.e.t.c (That I have taken myself on my hands ,whit NO results in a hospital in Norway,NO cost,because they consider me as an god candidate.Even if I mean myself that i only have moderate HH )

3. Hoping that there has come some better things on the marked!Because ionto is time-consuming,even have to travel whit the device.

And offcourse 4. A permamently CURE whit NO bad side effects:)

Maybe stamcell sience could be the answer.?But Mr Bush him self, stand his foot down on that one,because it was unethical.Isnt it unethical to let millions of people who suffer from different ,and horribale diseases to,and not do siecne that can bring their life back,based on sience??.Not just HH I am talking about.!


Finaly.You said that ETS is 60 years old,actually I think its even longer than that.But the ETS back then that you are talking about,was done in a completly different way.They open the back,and the surgery was Very dangerous and timeconsuming.And death was also a more often result.

The ETS i was reffering to: 15-20 years ago is the "new" one.Goes in to the side of the body,yea you know the procedure.And only take about 20 minut on each side,and death its not common.Very few have died from ETS surgery now!

Finally.I am so confused about the surgeons,the cant even agree today,which T-level,that is best to cut on.T1,T2,T3,T4,t5??

Some say T-3 and t-4 is the best one for handsweating.Some say only T-4,and that is safest to when its about getting side-effects.T-2 level for blushing,underarm sweating,and so on.And this is 15-20 years later,what the hell is going on? At least they should be agreed on this until now?
 

BiGz

Well-known member
Klamm 76 having been here since 2006 and you here less than 1 month means he knows a hell of a lot more about HH than you do. Success stories with ETS are just stories waiting to turn bad simple as that.

When I was first diagnosed with HH my doctor sent me off to a surgeon who does ETS, of course you get the speel about how it changes lives blah blah blah. Form was filled in and all I had to do was sign on the dotted line. Even the risks they stated sounded like it wasn't worth the gamble. After doing my research like everyone else I realised I could not find a single success story from those who had the operation years after. Some had bad side affects straight away some had it over a decade later.

Areas such as underarms and hands are easier to treat than if you got compensatory sweating around your crutch your buttocks and your face.

Yes we could of not said a thing to you about the negative side affects. You know what that would of meant??? A 1 post thread.

Than you probably would think well maybe no one had a comment but no one said anything negative either. And you go on your merry way thinking you are the only brave HH sufferer to take the op. The people on here are some of the bravest I know as they still deal with it and come on here to encourage and inform others. THEY face the reality of it and to some degree have delt with it while it sounds like you haven't, so you tell me who has 'balls'?

If I found a answer I'd still come back here and inform others it doesn't mean I haven't moved on. The fact you were warned though you didn't want to hear it shows the true nature of being a human being which is compassion, so take a minute to reflect about that.

Btw welcome to the forums
 

klamm76

Well-known member
BiGz

I think that you totally have misunderstood me! read the whole thing again,please.

Another thing,I am not here to discuss who is knowing most of HH or not.I just put my meanings in her.And disscus what I have experiensed,helping,try to get help.e.t.c.

Maybe I dont have right in all things I have said,but I can also missunderstand some things sometimes.And get missunderstood also,because my english isnt that good.

But I will not use that as an excuse,but it is no a advantage for me either.

Dont wanna go to your trouth,,,,,,yeat!!!!!At least I have balls to say what I mean,even if its wrong sometimes?,but then i apprisiate that somebody can tell me the real facts, if I am wrong! I usually have respect for all the people in this forum.

TNX
 

klamm76

Well-known member
Hehe,,Ok....Thanks for the clear up:)

And like I said on the last post,: I can also missunderstand some things sometimes.And get missunderstood also,because my english isnt that good.

Good example for that this time:/

But BigZ post, just was a little confusing for me.I didnt understand it either,it sounded like I had take the ETS op?? Read it about 3 times,still didnt get it right.Still not sure?:)

But anyway,if he was agreing whit me,so thanks for that too.

But I am just not in here to agree whit everybody.Just have to say my meanings.And try to have a objective/matter of fact discussions.!

Anyway,I dont want to put ANYBODY down here,no matter what they are claiming or saying.But then I only talk about us HH sufferes! We are in the same boat.

Same where,or how bad the HH is,we must try to stay toghether,and not attacing eachother.Even if, I my self have said some stupid things in here in frustration sometimes.

But please belive me, I REALLY TRY NOT TO!
 

klamm76

Well-known member
flakeybark said:
I keep thinking this thread is about depression


Eh,.......NO there is already a depression forum for that:)

But YES off course Im depressed sometimes because of this HH hell,and other medical conditions.

When I get rid of the physical problems,I will be the happiest man on earth I think:)

Good health is all I want,give my apartment,car,everything I own away, if I have my health 100%.
 

Sure_whynot

Well-known member
klamm76 said:
@ Sure_whynot Wrote
----

Jeg snakker norsk litt. Familien min er fra Norway/Scandinavia. haha

Du snakker svært godt engelsk, mye bedre da min norsk. lol

Im ikke prøver å være meningen folk på her, jeg bare ønsker å motivere dem til å være sterk og prøve å få fikset.

Hvor i Norge er du fra? hvis ok?

Sa jeg noe av det riktig? haha, Sorry if its not.


Haha,er du det :).Ja du snakker veldig godt norsk.Nesten helt korrekt :)

Du må ha gode røtter til den Norske familien din til og snakke så bra norsk,hvor er du ifra? Viss det er ok at jeg spør?

Noen småting her og der,akkurat som meg på engelsken.:)

Jeg forsto alt du mente.Men viss jeg skal sitere det du skrev helt riktig på norsk ,blir det slik:

Jeg snakker litt norsk.Familien min er fra Norge/Skandinavia.haha.

Du snakker svært godt engelsk,mye bedre enn min norsk.lol

Im=Jeg, prøver ikke å mene noe for folk her?(Ønsker ikke og støte noen:),jeg bare ønsker og motivere dem til og være sterkE og prøve og få fikset. (problemet=problem:)

Hehe, jeg er ifra stavanger:)

So now over to english again.Yes I agree on you on that.That you dont want to defend people in her,and only whish to motivate them to be strong and try to fix the problem:)

But I do to,but You just come very strong in here,an a little bit of arrogant,just like we dont know nothing on your firts post.I just took you up on that,and try to help,even if it NOT was what you wanted to here.

I have spoke my self to Gøran Chlaes Olson when I was about 22 years old.Dont know if i spelled his name correctly,long time ago.But he was the guy i Sweden that starte with ETS,and learned it to other people.The Guru on ETS.I am now 32 years old so this is about 11 years ago.And he only told me that this operation took about 20-30 minuts,and was very safe.90-95 succsessrate,and only side effeckt was minor sweating on their back!

Offcourse I was exstatic about this,halllleluja and so on:):):):):).But then I called a little around,spoke to one swedish guy who had done the ETS,and he allready told me then.Stay away,my life is worse know.And he also was suffering from foot/hand sweating. (Where do you sweat most btw?,underarms?)...So I spoke to other people to ,who had started a forum in norway who was for people who blushed,and took the same operation.I was warned there to,but many of them is satisfayied to.They dont regret.

But like I said,many has got their life from bad to worse,and there is NO going back!When its done,its done.Cutting or clamping.Destroyed for life.

They also called it a sweating nerve back them.Its not just a sweating nerve!!This nerve has also a huge impackt on the heart rythm,emotions,Mind,get your dick up,yea everything that the sympatic nervesystem is supoose to do.I just think its a gamblin,even if many people is satifayed.I am not a cowerd,and love to bet,gambel take challengers etc.But all that I have read up til now,Ijust not can ignore.

Another problem is that some are "luckier" than others.Some can feel a relife in 1 month,some 1 year,some 10 year and so on.I but suddenly your life can change after 5 year,and you have a living hell.

A fact about this surgeons is that they only follow up on ETS patient the first 6 mounths,and then they give a shit.That why I belive that their are caliming their sucsessrate so high.Ask them if they have follow them up 5-10 years later,and hear what they have to say then.Sure some are still satisfayed,but I think the sucsessrate had fallen at least 60-70& down the hill.!!

But best of luck,I dont blame you if you go ahead whit it.I understand the frustration myself.I have been there.:Ill take the chanse because I would rather be dead then live whit this hell,but I have change my mind about that now!


@ Kingflab

Don't be silly, we've all got the same problem, and it pisses us all of. Having a go at someone for not replying to a thread is just unnecessary.


Maybe I was a little silly,but Iam very sensitive like you guys on this HH shit,so when
[/code]


Haha, Takker deg meget mye.

Jeg lever i Amerika. Jeg har mye familien i Norge/Scandinavia slik de lærte meg noe språk. =]

Dets meget hardt men jeg liker din språk alot, og jeg liker Norge meget mye !

Men dont er gal på meg bifaller ? Du forstår til høyre ?

Hvis jeg får folk gal, blir motivert de meget mye. Selv om de får sint på meg, arbeider det meget godt. Slik folk prøv til å bevise meg gal og til å bli sterkere og hjelp themselfs.

Forstår du ? Eller tror du dets ikke arbeid ? Im ikke sikker.


Jeg har meget dårlig å svetting i mine hender & armpits. Slik håper jeg at ETS vil hjelpe meg. Dets mitt eneste angrep forlot. Ellers intet arbeidet. =/

Im som ikke posterer på denne siden mye mer, fordi folk er motivert nå til å snakke og til å hjelpe seg om ETS.

Im ikke dårlig person, lover jeg. hah =]

Hvor er du plassert ? & Hvordan snakker du slik flink til Engelsk ?
 

BiGz

Well-known member
klamm76 said:
Hehe,,Ok....Thanks for the clear up:)

And like I said on the last post,: I can also missunderstand some things sometimes.And get missunderstood also,because my english isnt that good.

Good example for that this time:/

But BigZ post, just was a little confusing for me.I didnt understand it either,it sounded like I had take the ETS op?? Read it about 3 times,still didnt get it right.Still not sure?:)

But anyway,if he was agreing whit me,so thanks for that too.

But I am just not in here to agree whit everybody.Just have to say my meanings.And try to have a objective/matter of fact discussions.!

Anyway,I dont want to put ANYBODY down here,no matter what they are claiming or saying.But then I only talk about us HH sufferes! We are in the same boat.

Same where,or how bad the HH is,we must try to stay toghether,and not attacing eachother.Even if, I my self have said some stupid things in here in frustration sometimes.

But please belive me, I REALLY TRY NOT TO!

Thats ok Klamm my post was only referring to my own experiences with seeing a surgeon about ETS and I was saying to 'Sure why not' that if he thinks we don't have courage than he needs to think again as simply thats one of the most insulting things he could say about the people on here considering what we cope with.

And I was saying that you obviously know much more than him and that he has been here less than 1 month and than think he can treat you as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Hope you understand what I mean Klamm

As for Sure_whynot don't think I'm holding anything personal against you as I understand why you acted they way you did even though it was premature. I feel like I'm a kettle boiling with no where to vent sometimes myself, in fact we all do. But the people on here are fellow sufferers and are on here for the same purpose as you. I went away for a long time as I gave up hope and every time I came back I'd feel more depressed, but I came to a point where I needed to try again and I'm on my last resort which is the home made iontherposis which I'm trying for the first time today. And finally I'm also starting to gain some positiveness being here seeing other sufferers manage to get on with their lives.

Oh btw as for your other thread there have been ETS patients around here with nothing good to report, point is they can't treat the compensatory sweating and you only waited 3 days for a reply. Read the reports in China, there has been mass outcry by the ETS patients over there, they were protesting in rally's against the government. I'll try find a link for you or you can google it yourself. Isn't that proof enough for you?
 

Sure_whynot

Well-known member
BiGz said:
klamm76 said:
Hehe,,Ok....Thanks for the clear up:)

And like I said on the last post,: I can also missunderstand some things sometimes.And get missunderstood also,because my english isnt that good.

Good example for that this time:/

But BigZ post, just was a little confusing for me.I didnt understand it either,it sounded like I had take the ETS op?? Read it about 3 times,still didnt get it right.Still not sure?:)

But anyway,if he was agreing whit me,so thanks for that too.

But I am just not in here to agree whit everybody.Just have to say my meanings.And try to have a objective/matter of fact discussions.!

Anyway,I dont want to put ANYBODY down here,no matter what they are claiming or saying.But then I only talk about us HH sufferes! We are in the same boat.

Same where,or how bad the HH is,we must try to stay toghether,and not attacing eachother.Even if, I my self have said some stupid things in here in frustration sometimes.

But please belive me, I REALLY TRY NOT TO!

Thats ok Klamm my post was only referring to my own experiences with seeing a surgeon about ETS and I was saying to 'Sure why not' that if he thinks we don't have courage than he needs to think again as simply thats one of the most insulting things he could say about the people on here considering what we cope with.

And I was saying that you obviously know much more than him and that he has been here less than 1 month and than think he can treat you as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Hope you understand what I mean Klamm

As for Sure_whynot don't think I'm holding anything personal against you as I understand why you acted they way you did even though it was premature. I feel like I'm a kettle boiling with no where to vent sometimes myself, in fact we all do. But the people on here are fellow sufferers and are on here for the same purpose as you. I went away for a long time as I gave up hope and every time I came back I'd feel more depressed, but I came to a point where I needed to try again and I'm on my last resort which is the home made iontherposis which I'm trying for the first time today. And finally I'm also starting to gain some positiveness being here seeing other sufferers manage to get on with their lives.

Oh btw as for your other thread there have been ETS patients around here with nothing good to report, point is they can't treat the compensatory sweating and you only waited 3 days for a reply. Read the reports in China, there has been mass outcry by the ETS patients over there, they were protesting in rally's against the government. I'll try find a link for you or you can google it yourself. Isn't that proof enough for you?

With respect, The only reason I've abandoned this thread is because its been flooded with off topic spam. At this point it would be easier to just start a new post.

Being labeled the pseudointellectual of this forum is not as discouraging as you may think. Its the irony that gets me. You think because im new to this specific forum on this specific website that I dont know what i am talking about. haha

Newsflash- I HAVE HH & i know exactly how it feels. Sever sweating in the Hands, Armpits, random other places at random times, and the feet.

Im not trying to start a biggest loser contest... but i just wanted to make a point im one of you guys.

I guess uniformity is key, but i've never been one to fall in line. Each man to his own, we'll agree to disagree. Thats fine.

The way I see it... is if ETS gives me a single month of happiness... scrath that... a single day... then it was worth it. Because im not living anymore. So whats the point.
 

Sure_whynot

Well-known member
Also, I've looked links that express your point of view.
(and apologized to my Norwegian friend personally)

Take a look at mine, and tell me what you think.

http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/80/2/467
This is a paper written by my doctor, at University of Florida.

*He is paid by the university the same amount of money per week if he dose 0 surgery's or if he dose 10000 surgery's.*

http://www.surgery.ufl.edu/tcv/files/ETS Surgery.pdf

This is a letter i found on the internet while searching my doctors name.

http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/75/4/1075

This discusses the long term effects of ETS surgery's. & has many legitimate points. Including a very reasonable answer for why there is not very much 5+ or 10+ year research for the long term effects of ETS.

My doctors name is Dr. Charles T. Klodell.

Do your worst. ;]
 

BiGz

Well-known member
yes it did cross my mind that you may have been researching HH for a while but my point was the way you barged in here making rather disfunctionary remarks as a new member to the forums and than making (excuse the term) "newb" comments very much indicated a certain lack of knowledge or understanding.

Having looked at those links still in no way persuades me into considering ETS. Why? Because like you I suffer hands, underarms, feet and slightly under extreme circumstances upper thigh area. Why would I and most others not contemplate ETS?

For hands and feet iontherposis seems to be the answer. Underarms I'm not aware of the success however I'm going to attempt this so I'll soon know.

For underarms there is still the removal of sweat glands and if you are in a country that makes it affordable than theres botox.

The fact that these are all proven treatments with out the extreme side affects of ETS are enough to persuade most of us otherwise.

And sometimes I'm not sure if you have heard this saying but its "better the devil you know than the one you don't".

Just as a side note: I understand why you would opt for ETS and I respect that but given the above reasons is why most of us wouldn't consider it viable. Simply the point I'm making is don't come on a new forum and imply we are balless because we choose to do what we do thats all.
 

kingflab

Well-known member
Off-topic spam? Yeah. Us telling you how ETS is bad, in a topic which relates to ETS, is somehow off-topic.

Oh shut up. It’s a forum, with less than a hundred users who sweat too much. It isn't a collective. It isn't a pressure group. It isn't an anti-ETS forum. And no matter how much you might think you're being 'different' you're not, you're just being an idiot.

It's as simple as this. ETS works. It can, and has, worked very well. The only difference between it and every other HH solution out there is that it has -on occasion- produced rather un-wanted side effects. I realise those studies make you think that it's all good, but just consider that there are numerous 'long term' studies stating the exact opposite (if I can be arsed to find them later, I will)

I realise you think you're smarter than everybody else here, or that we're too stupid to make the correct decision, or hell, possibly that we just don’t want to accept that surgery has some positive potential. I'd therefore like to remind you that there are plenty of doctors (have a look at the International Hyperhidrosis Society) doing studies that would argue that ETS is not as safe and quality assured as it is often made out to be. Hell, the Swedish government banned the damn thing. But yeah, sure, if you think you have 'balls of steel' then you go for it, I honestly couldn't give a damn what happens to you.

I'm sure you know entirely better than the other half of medical science, than the Swedish government, and by all the people who are now complaining about its side-effects. For that reason I shall thoroughly encourage you to get the surgery done.


Anyway, like I said, the studies go either way. There's a lot more literature in support of ETS, mainly as all the surgeons are desperate to keep the surgery in a positive light... otherwise they'd lose a massive proportion of their income. This is just a post from the ETS reversals forum, I know it won't change your mind, and frankly I couldn't give a damn.


ARE WE PAYING A HIGH PRICE FOR SURGICAL SYMPATHECTOMY?

A Systematic Literature Review of Late Complications
Andrea Furlana,c MD, Angela Mailisa,bMD, MSc, FRCPC
(PhysMed) and Marios Papagapioua Msc
Comprehensive Pain Programaand Toronto
Western Hospital Research Instituteb,The Toronto Western Hospital, and Institute
for Work & Healthc, Toronto, Ontario,Canada.



INTRODUCTION

Surgical sympathectomy is performed in thousands of patients around the world primarily for the treatment of bothersome palmar hyperhidrosis.(1-7) Much less frequent indications are: neuropathic pain syndromes (like Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy and Causalgia)(2;8;9), ischaemic conditions including peripheral vascular disease and Raynaud's phenomena (2) and rarely facial blushing (10), Prinzmetal's angina (11), as well as migraine, dysmenorrhea and pancreatitis. (2;12) Over the past couple of decades the minimally invasive endoscopic approach has gained popularity in an effort to reduce length of hospital stay and costs of the procedure. First described by Kux in 1953, it has been considered to have advantages over the traditional open approaches (better cosmetic results, good exposure of the sympathetic chain and minimal post-operative pain leading to rapid recovery) (13;14). Drott Et al (15) considered the procedure easy, fast, inexpensive and efficient and felt that the open approach will be relegated to medical history". This contrasts the experience of Hashmonai et al (16) who compared thoracoscopic versus open supraclavicular sympathectomies via a prospective randomized trial and found longer duration of anesthesia and lesser patient satisfaction in the thoracoscopic group [Hashmonai is now doing endoscopic only]. Nevertheless, immediate (perioperative and postoperative) complications (primarily for the open but lso the endoscopic approach) include: fever, hematoma, transient Horner's syndrome, bleeding, pneumothorax, infection, wound pain, lymphatic leak, chylothorax, arterial injury, brachial plexus injury, etc.(17). Late complications include: permanent Horner's syndrome, neuralgic pains, unsightly wound appearance, compensatory hyperhidrosis, gustatory sweating and phantom sweating, and in the case of bilateral Lumbar sympathectomy [often done for feet sweat only, ETS/ESB is thoracic], erectile dysfunction in the male and lack of clitoral tumescence in the female (18). Given the recent report of formation of self-support groups in Sweden for patients "suffering from complications of the procedure"(19) and the lack of systematic evaluation of the existing literature, the purpose of this literature review is to provide evidence-based assessment of: 1) current indications for surgical sympathectomy, 2) and incidence of late complications collectively and per indication.

METHODS

Operational definitions:

This review included the following surgical procedures: Upper extremities: a) Open: supraclavicular, (20-24) posterior midline, (25) paravertebral, (26;27) anterior transthoracic, (28) axillary transthoracic, (29;30) and extrathoracic with first rib Resection (31); b) Minimally invasive (Endoscopic)(32-35) with thermocoagulation or Electrocute (36) or endoscopic with laser coagulation (37); and c)Percutaneous radiofrequency or stereotactic.(11;37) Lower extremities: a) Open (38;39) with lateral or flank incision through retroperitoneal approach, (40) or anterior via transperitoneal route; (41) b) Minimally invasive (Endoscopic - retroperitoneoscopic); (42;43) and, c) percutaneous radiofrequency or stereotactic.(40)

Terms used in this review are defined as follows: Horner's syndrome is the triad of miosis, ptosis and facial anhidrosis resulting from interruption of the sympathetic outflow to the eye; Neuropathic pain refers to pain arising from injury or dysfunction of the peripheral or central nervous system. This definition is used in the current study both for a) the indications for surgical Sympathectomy and b) complications arising from it. Therefore, neuropathic pain as a term encompasses in the present study conditions reported in the literature as causalgia and reflex sympathetic dystrophy (currently called complex regional pain syndromes), nerve injury, neuralgia, neuritis and post-sympathectomy neuralgia; Primary or essential hyperhidrosis connotes excessive sweating involving primarily the palms, more pronounced in the context of emotional stimuli;(45;46) Compensatory hyperhidrosis (primarily in non denervated areas, i.e., trunk and thighs) is considered to occur after cervicodorsal sympathectomy and is called "compensatory" because of the current belief that it is a thermoregulatory reflex mediated on its efferent limb by remaining glands that still possess sympathetic innervation; (47) gustatory sweating (bilateral) and symmetrical involving the face) (48) occurs in normal individuals eating spicy (i.e., capsaicin containing) foods. Pathological gustatory sweating is seen in idiopathic hemi facial hyperhidrosis, pre or post-ganglionic sympathetic damage after sympathectomy or trauma and autonomic fiber damage within peripheral trigeminal branches; (49) Phantom sweating is a subjective feeling of "bursts" of sweating in the palms in the absence of actual sweating. It occurs after sympathectomy and is considered a symptom of residual sympathetic activity.(50)

Search Strategy

The following sources were included: *MEDLINE (Ovid) from 1966 to April 1998, using the search terms: autonomic denervation or surgical sympathectomy or ganglionectomy, AND postoperative complications, compensatory sweating, hyperhidrosis, pain, neuralgia, reflex sympathetic dystrophy, causalgia, ischemia, Horner; *EMBASE (Ovid online version) from 1980 to April 1998, with the same search strategy as for MEDLINE; *Relevant textbooks of neurosurgery, thoracic surgery, autonomic nervous system and pain. (51-57) *Screening of references in the articles and book chapters retrieved; *The Cochrane Controlled Trials Register (Cochrane Library 1998, issue 1). Study selection/ Inclusion criteria Inclusion of studies was based on the following: *Methodological issues: Studies accepted for review were randomized controlled trials, controlled clinical trials, observational studies (retrospective and prospective) or case series with more than 5 patients. Letters, commentaries and book chapters relevant to the topic of complications were included if original data about the incidence of complications were presented. The papers were in English or, if in other languages, the abstract a) was in English, and b) contained sufficient information about the topic, as described below. *Clinical issues: Only patients submitted to cervicodorsal or lumbar sympathectomy (via open, endoscopic and stereotactic approach) involving the upper or lower extremities were included. Studies selected for review had to address at least one of the following aspects related to surgical sympathectomy: 1) Complications, side-effects, late sequelae or hazards; 2) Compensatory hyperhidrosis; 3) Gustatory sweating; 4) Phantom sweating; 5) Horner's syndrome; and 6) Neuropathic pain syndromes.

Outcome measures and data extraction

The incidence of the complications was defined as "the number of patients presenting with a given complication divided by the total number of patients submitted to surgical sympathectomy". The following complications were recorded: compensatory hyperhidrosis, gustatory sweating, phantom sweating, Horner's syndrome and neuropathic pain conditions. Two authors (AF and AM) evaluated the results of the search and the inclusion criteria were applied to all studies in abstract form. Subsequently, one reviewer (AF) extracted data into an electronic database (Microsoft Excel). In case of doubt as to interpretation of data, as well as for data relating to neuropathic pain complications, original articles were reviewed by both reviewers. For each article retrieved data were extracted based on the following checklist items (detailed version of the checklist available on request): General: source, year of publication, department, language, country, type of article; Intervention: denervated body region, approach, level and method of denervation, details of surgical approach, (for example ablating the nerve of Kuntz, intervening chain, rami communicants etc.), laterality of denervation, indications; Population: number of patients and procedures, mean follow up in months, mean patient age in years, gender; Outcomes: incidence of compensatory
hyperhidrosis, gustatory sweating, phantom sweating, Horners syndrome, neuropathic pain; severity of a given complication i.e., major or minor; onset of each complication after surgery; explicit descriptions of failure of the procedure to correct the problem for which it was performed; characteristics and localization of neuropathic pain, etc. We evaluated the papers based on what we considered to be "essential" clinical elements: a) specific type of surgical approach, b) whether specific inquiry was made to the patients regarding complications, c) provision of sufficient information to enable us to classify a
given complication as minor or major, and d) duration of follow up. The assessment provided a general idea about the extent and type of information available in the existing literature. However, no papers were excluded from this review based on the above assessment, as long as they could provide relevant information.

Data analysis

The data were analyzed in order to obtain: 1) the most common indications for surgical sympathectomy in rank order; 2) demographic information about age and gender of patients; 3) the incidence rates of most common complications; and 4) the incidence of each complication according to indication. Special effort was made to detect the degree or severity of each complication. The types of surgical approach, levels of denervation, type of instruments used to interrupt the sympathetic chain, age and gender of patients we reevaluated in relation to complications. Weighted means were obtained in regards to incidence of complications using the following formula: Weighted Mean Percent= for a particular symptom of interest in the studies.(with the fraction of the sample population for a particular ailment of interest in a study, and is the actual reported number of the sample population for any symptom per given study). Since the data extracted were highly heterogeneous and represented multiple procedures, patients and indications, we avoided statistical comparisons. Obvious differences in the weighted means serve in the discussion to create "hypothesis generators" and facilitate discussion. Data duplication Certain authors published repeatedly on the same patient series. We attempted to
identify these publications. If the authors gave adequate information regarding the number of patients and the period of study, we excluded patient populations that we recognized as duplicate. When in serious doubt, certain papers were also excluded. As well, the number of procedures reported is accurate at least in representing the minimum number of procedures performed. However, it is possible that the current number of procedures reported may be slightly underestimated.

RESULTS

The MEDLINE strategy yielded 1024 articles and the EMBASE 221. The inclusion criteria were met by 135 papers. The primary reasons for the exclusion of the majority of the detected papers included: failure to mention complications, unclear information, other than limb sympathectomies and chemical instead of surgical sympathectomy. Overall, 22,458 patients and 42,061 procedures were included in this review. Since it was not possible to extract all desired data from each paper used in this review, we specify patient numbers corresponding to each important category of data. Significant problems encountered during the data extraction included: Multiplicity of approaches to surgical sympathectomy, variable methods for reporting outcomes, lack of systematic collection of data regarding complications, the variable (and frequently non existent) follow up, the non systematic reporting Of complications, and the lack of common terminology for certain conditions (i.e., neuropathic pain).

Data Synthesis

Most of the included papers were written in English (89.5%). More than half of the studies described procedures performed in the United States, United Kingdom, Taiwan and Israel (17.2%, 15.2%, 13.9% and 9.9% of the reviewed studies respectively). Only one randomized controlled trial was found in the literature comparing two surgical approaches,(16) but it was excluded from this review because the follow up of one week did not allow for emergence of late complications (data table with details of the studies available on request). The majority (115 papers or 85.8%) of the reviewed reports described non-controlled clinical trials, either retrospective or prospective, and case series, while the rest were letters, commentaries and chapters. Assessment was possible in 115 papers (Table 1) and demonstrated the following: a) The majority of the reviewed studies (89.6%) did describe the surgical procedure in detail; b) In only 30.4% of the reviewed papers were patients asked specifically about complications; c) Less than half of the studies (46.1%)reported degree of severity for compensatory hyperhidrosis only (no degree of severity could be ascertained for other complications); and d) The duration of the follow-up period was less than 12 months in19.1% of studies, more than 12 months in 53% and not provided in 27.8% of the studies. The mean age of all sympathectomized patients was 29.5 years (range 9-65, SD=10.4 years). This was obviously skewed, due to the predominance of palmar hyperhidrosis occurring in young patients, as a surgical indication. Indeed, when the indications for surgical sympathectomy were considered
separately, the average age of patients with primary hyperhidrosis, neuropathic pain and vascular disease respectively was 24.7, 36.8 and 54.0 years. While a little more than half of all sympathectomized patients (55.8%)were female, when the gender was considered separately based on the indication, the percentage of males undergoing surgical sympathectomy for primary hyperhidrosis, neuropathic pain and vascular disease was found to be 56.5%, 68.1% and 12.0% respectively. The overwhelming indication for surgical sympathectomy in 22,458 evaluable patients was primary hyperhidrosis (84.3% or 18,948 patients). The procedure for this indication was primarily bilateral. Other indications for much smaller populations were neuropathic pain (2.7% or 598 patients), vascular Ischemia (2.2% or 492 patients), Raynaud's phenomenon (0.2% or 39 patients), long QT syndrome (0.04% or 10 patients), and "unspecified/mixed" (10.2% or 2,299
patients). The latter category includes mixed surgical populations, for example neuropathic patients, ischemia patients and hyperhidrosis patients, without information about number of patients or complications per subgroup. A total of 134 articles (reporting on 22,458 evaluable patients) contained some information regarding the body region that was sympathectomized. Overall, 20,871 patients were submitted to upper extremity sympathectomy (consistent with the indication of primary hyperhidrosis), 782 to lower extremity sympathectomies and both upper and lower extremities were operated in 140 patients. In 665 patients the localization of surgical sympathectomy in the upper or lower extremity could not be ascertained. Endoscopic sympathectomy was the procedure of choice in the upper extremities (in 83.6% of the patients), while of the patients with
lower extremity procedures had open approach (77.2%). The most common levels of denervation were T2-3 (35%), T2-4 (19%) and T2 (14%) in the upper extremities and L2-4 (64%), L2-3 (18%) in the lower extremities (details of the number and combinations of denervated segments available upon request).

Most common late complications

Compensatory hyperhidrosis was reported to occur only when surgical sympathectomy was cervicodorsal. The weighted mean incidence of this complication was 52.3 % with information extracted from 17,552 patients (range 0-100% in 79 studies). (5; 10; 11; 14; 15; 17; 25; 26; 45); (58-126) Most patients had more than one surgery for palmar hyperhidrosis, while neuropathic pain patients had mostly unilateral procedure. Forty
Studies (corresponding to 5,425 patients) classified compensatory hyperhidrosis either as minor (insignificant) or major (quite disabling). In these studies, 26.3% or one quarter of patients with compensatory hyperhidrosis considered the complication major and disabling. The average time between surgical sympathectomy and the appearance of compensatory hyperhidrosis was 4 months (range 1-6 months). (82;93;118) The incidence of compensatory hyperhidrosis did not seem to be different after open or endoscopic approach. Irrespective of approach, two or more levels of denervation and removal of the stellate ganglion produced noticeably higher incidence. Finally, the incidence of this complication seemed to be 3 times higher when the surgery was performed for primary hyperhidrosis than neuropathic pain (weighted mean 52.3% vs. 18.2% respectively). Details are shown for all data in Table 2. Gender, age or specific inquiry regarding the occurrence of compensatory hyperhidrosis did not seem to affect the incidence of this complication. The weighted mean incidence of gustatory
sweating after upper extremity surgical sympathectomy was 32.3% (range 0-79) (information retrieved from 44 papers and 5,142 patients). (5; 10; 13-15; 17; 32; 60; 61; 63; 64; 67;72; 74; 76; 77; 79; 81; 82; 86-88; 94-96; 98; 103; 107; 108; 114; 115; 122; 126-137) The phenomenon appeared on average 5 months after surgery. The weighted means appeared substantially greater when the open approach was used, two or more levels were denervated, the chain was electrocoagulated but left in situ and primary hyperhidrosis was the indication for the intervention. (Table 2). Excision of the stellate ganglion, and the age or gender of the patients did not seem to substantially alter the weighted means. Unfortunately, the data did not allow us to draw conclusions about the degree of severity of this complication. The weighted mean incidence of phantom sweating was 38.6 % (range 0-59%), with data extracted from 13 papers (that specifically reported the phenomenon) and 1,539 patients. (5; 14; 17; 50; 60; 63; 67; 72; 82; 98;122;
132;136) Open surgery produced noticeably higher incidence of phantom sweating. Insufficient data regarding levels of denervation, removal or not of the stellate ganglion and primary indication did not allow us to draw conclusions about effect of these variables on the incidence. Age or gender failed to alter the incidence of phantom sweating. As with gustatory sweating, the data did not allow conclusions regarding the severity of this complication. As far as Horner's Syndrome is concerned, we encountered great variability of reporting. In some studies Horner's was considered permanent if present at the most recent follow-up, but the follow up periods were variable. The weighted mean incidence of Horner's syndrome was 2.4% (range 0-100%) (data extracted from 93 studies, 18,747 patients and 33,501 procedures). (5; 10; 11; 14; 17; 20; 25; 26; 28; 32; 37; 38; 50; 60; 62-64; 67-74; 76-79; 84-91; 93-96; 98-101; 103-110; 112-118;
120-122; 124; 131-134; 136-160) The open approach and the removal of the stellate ganglion seemed to produce a higher incidence of this complication (Table 2).The weighted mean incidence of neuropathic pain complications was 11.9% (range 0-87%),with data extracted from 37 papers and 1,979 patients (5; 11; 14; 20; 32; 37; 38; 43; 60; 65; 71; 79; 85; 89; 92; 93; 95; 103; 105; 118;120; 122; 134; 136; 141; 153; 158-167) Common descriptors for these pains were deep, dull, boring, no rhythmic.

nerves and body regions (Table 3).

No obvious differences in weighted means were observed based caching, and discomfort. Neuropathic pain complications were reported in variable ways, involving multiple on surgical approach, number of denervated levels or type of technique used. However, when surgical sympathectomy was performed for relief of neuropathic pain, for example causalgia or reflex sympathetic dystrophy, the incidence of these complications was 3 times higher than when the indication was Primary hyperhidrosis (weighted means 25.2 % and 9.8 % respectively). (Table 2). Higher incidence of neuropathic complications was noted as well if the surgery was performed in the lower extremities.

DISCUSSION

General appraisal of the literature overall, the existing literature presented us with substantial challenges and numerous difficulties. Every effort was made (see Methods) not to count patients twice in case they were reported in more than one paper. Duplicate data were found in a number of references (148/90,77/15/85,88/108,168/117)and 5 of these references were rejected (with the reported patients counted only once). Despite our efforts, it is possible that some patients were counted twice, but we do not believe this is a substantial flaw of this review, given the large numbers of patients, procedures and papers included and the small number of possible duplications. Due to the marked heterogeneity of patients, procedures, settings and indications, we avoided statistical comparisons. However, we use obvious differences in weighted means to discuss hypotheses, provoke critical thinking and formulate questions for possible future research. Our systematic review has several limitations. We point out the most serious ones: No controlled trials; One data extractor (even if most papers were reviewed by both
reviewers); Multiple surgical approaches and techniques; Unilateral and most often bilateral procedures; Several indications; Variable and at times not reported follow up periods; Lack of systematic data collection; Poorly defined and variable outcomes; Random reporting of complications (some volunteered by the patients and some after specific inquiry); Lack of common terminology (particularly in relationship to neuropathic pain), and, Data duplication in some studies. However, we feel that this systematic review, despite its serious limitations, still provides the "best available evidence" in the existing literature and points directions of future research. Given the fact that most of the existing literature is geared towards a) assessing only the effectiveness of the surgical sympathectomy procedures, and b) publishing only studies with positive results, adverse effects and complications are not systematically reported but rather as a secondary outcome. It seems, therefore, highly likely that the complications as reported here, are truly underestimated.

Specific complications and current literature beliefs

Our systematic review demonstrated that just about half of all patients who underwent surgical sympathectomy of the upper extremities, whether by open or minimally invasive approach, reported compensatory hyperhidrosis. Our findings not only demonstrate a high incidence of this complication with open surgery, but equally high incidence with the endoscopic approach, contrary to the common belief that the latter is innocuous. (14) Furthermore, more than two levels of denervation in accordance with current beliefs (47; 61; ) primary hyperhidrosis as the indication for treatment are
associated with higher incidence of this complication. The finding of high rates of compensatory hyperhidrosis specifically in patients operated for palmar hyperhidrosis may be attributed to two factors: a) the bilaterality of the procedure in most cases and b) inherent genetic vulnerability (46;47) which may make these patients prone to deregulation of sweat gland activity. The current literature, in general, has paid little attention to compensatory hyperhidrosis as a complication. Adar (169) reported that it is severe and disabling only in 1% of those patients who develop compensatory hyperhidrosis. However, our data show that the problem is indeed much more serious than currently thought, as 1 in 4 patients who develop the complication consider it disabling and worse than the reason (palmar hyperhidrosis) that led to the procedure. Our literature synthesis further shows that approximately one third of patients with cervicodorsal sympathectomy develop gustatory and phantom sweating. Adar et al (17) reported that the incidence of those two complications is fairly high (75% and 53% respectively) only if the patients are asked about it, but considered the phenomenon insignificant and not bothersome. Unfortunately, the available data do not allow us to ascertain the severity of these complications in the literature as a whole. Horner's syndrome occurred in 2.4% of all upper extremity sympathectomies. Our data support
the commonly held belief that the open approach and stellate ganglion excision increase significantly the incidence of this complication. Neuropathic pain syndromes were reported in 11.9% of all patients submitted to surgical sympathectomy in general, but seemed to affect patients 3 times more often when the surgery was performed to relieve painful neuropathic conditions than to relieve primary hyperhidrosis. The neuropathic conditions included neuralgias and neuropathies in specific nerves or nerve roots, post-sympathectomy neuralgia and unspecified neuropathic pains in body regions. We were, however, unable to extract exact information regarding the duration and evolution of these complications, nor come to any conclusions regarding the severity of these new
pains as compared to the original pain that led to the sympathectomy. The finding of high rate of neuropathic complications after surgical sympathectomy for the treatment of neuropathic painful conditions has not been reported previously. Such a high incidence (affecting 1 in 4 neuropathic pain patients) raises serious concerns regarding the appropriateness and associated dangers of surgical sympathectomy for the treatment of neuropathic pain. We hypothesize that these patients have already a vulnerable nervous system which will further react to any new trauma particularly to neural tissue. Several issues regarding sympathectomy remain open, as the objectives of this review were limited and specific. This review is geared exclusively around late complications and
does not address efficacy or effectiveness of the procedure. While the vast majority of patients were operated for palmar hyperhidrosis,the procedure is obviously used for other indications, most importantly ischemia and neuropathic pain. However, questions around satisfaction of patients with the procedure for a given indication or which approach is the best for the same indication were not asked. Similarly, we are unable to answer questions regarding completeness or permanency of the sympathetic denervation.. We did not address the issue of chemical sympathectomy, since the inclusion criteria would be more expanded (approach, neurolytic substance, volume, level etc). In general, efficacy of
both chemical and surgical sympathectomy for neuropathic pain will be addressed in another review in progress. There is large literature on sympathectomy in ischemic pain, but only the studies that fulfilled our inclusion criteria (i.e., with reference to complications) were included.
Last but not least, this review does not permit conclusions about underlying pathophysiologic mechanisms responsible for the observed complications. Is compensatory hyperhidrosis truly "compensatory" in the sense that the remaining sweat glands "overwork" to compensate for those that have been denervated? Does it occur only after cervicodorsal sympathectomy as our study suggests? In the senior author's substantial experience with neuropathic pain patients after unilateral sympathectomy, abnormal and extensive sweating has been observed within days and usually weeks in the non-sympathectomized or even the sympathectomized! extremity (despite electrophysiological confirmation of loss of sympathetic skin responses), can be seen after minor and partial nerve injuries and has occurred even in cases of lower extremity chemical sympatholysis (Mailis et al, unpublished observations). While palmar hyperhidrosis is treated usually with bilateral sympathectomy, inherent genetic vulnerability (as we discussed above) maybe contributory to the high incidence of compensatory hyperhidrosis after treatment of palmar hyperhidrosis. We suggest that the
possibility of central contribution to the deregulation of sweat gland activity may be a substantial one and should constitute the subject of future research. Furthermore, our data suggest that the presence of a dysfunctional nervous system may constitute "vulnerability" to develop further neuropathic pain syndromes. Could this vulnerability be centrally mediated as well? What is the true nature of all other phenomena observed after sympathectomy (pathological gustatory sweating and what seems to be a rather innocuous complication, phantom sweating)? These and many other questions remain currently unanswered and should constitute similarly the focus of future
research.

CONCLUSIONS, IMPLICATIONS FOR CLINICAL PRACTICEAND RECOMMENDATIONS

The sheer volume of reported procedures and patients in this review despite all its limitations, can not be ignored. The study indicates that surgical sympathectomy, irrespective of operative approach and indication, may be associated with many and potentially serious complications. A properly informed consent for the patient should include the most common complications and the incidence according to indication. Patients who are offered surgery for relief of primary hyperhidrosis should be warned that they have a high incidence of developing a different form of sweating and that if they do so, this maybe a disabling complication. Similarly, patients with painful neuropathic conditions, should be informed that they also have a significant risk of acquiring a new neuropathic pain syndrome. Our review raises questions and hypotheses. However, randomized controlled trials and well-designed clinical trials are indicated to establish
the true incidence and severity of surgical sympathectomy complications. These studies should a) employ common terminology (particularly for neuropathic pain), b) inquires specifically about complications and their severity, and c) provide appropriate follow-up to determine onset and duration of the complications. Furthermore, patient satisfaction surveys could determine the acceptance rate of sympathectomy versus the "price" one has to pay to get rid of the original indication that led to the procedure.

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BiGz

Well-known member
Anyway as far as I'm concerned this topic can go to rest. I have no issue with what your request was it was the way you put it across and the arrogance displayed. My main point purely and simply was Don't come on here showing attitude.
 

klamm76

Well-known member
Sure_whynot said:
klamm76 said:
@ Sure_whynot Wrote
----

Jeg snakker norsk litt. Familien min er fra Norway/Scandinavia. haha

Du snakker svært godt engelsk, mye bedre da min norsk. lol

Im ikke prøver å være meningen folk på her, jeg bare ønsker å motivere dem til å være sterk og prøve å få fikset.

Hvor i Norge er du fra? hvis ok?

Sa jeg noe av det riktig? haha, Sorry if its not.


Haha,er du det :).Ja du snakker veldig godt norsk.Nesten helt korrekt :)

Du må ha gode røtter til den Norske familien din til og snakke så bra norsk,hvor er du ifra? Viss det er ok at jeg spør?

Noen småting her og der,akkurat som meg på engelsken.:)

Jeg forsto alt du mente.Men viss jeg skal sitere det du skrev helt riktig på norsk ,blir det slik:

Jeg snakker litt norsk.Familien min er fra Norge/Skandinavia.haha.

Du snakker svært godt engelsk,mye bedre enn min norsk.lol

Im=Jeg, prøver ikke å mene noe for folk her?(Ønsker ikke og støte noen:),jeg bare ønsker og motivere dem til og være sterkE og prøve og få fikset. (problemet=problem:)

Hehe, jeg er ifra stavanger:)

So now over to english again.Yes I agree on you on that.That you dont want to defend people in her,and only whish to motivate them to be strong and try to fix the problem:)

But I do to,but You just come very strong in here,an a little bit of arrogant,just like we dont know nothing on your firts post.I just took you up on that,and try to help,even if it NOT was what you wanted to here.

I have spoke my self to Gøran Chlaes Olson when I was about 22 years old.Dont know if i spelled his name correctly,long time ago.But he was the guy i Sweden that starte with ETS,and learned it to other people.The Guru on ETS.I am now 32 years old so this is about 11 years ago.And he only told me that this operation took about 20-30 minuts,and was very safe.90-95 succsessrate,and only side effeckt was minor sweating on their back!

Offcourse I was exstatic about this,halllleluja and so on:):):):):).But then I called a little around,spoke to one swedish guy who had done the ETS,and he allready told me then.Stay away,my life is worse know.And he also was suffering from foot/hand sweating. (Where do you sweat most btw?,underarms?)...So I spoke to other people to ,who had started a forum in norway who was for people who blushed,and took the same operation.I was warned there to,but many of them is satisfayied to.They dont regret.

But like I said,many has got their life from bad to worse,and there is NO going back!When its done,its done.Cutting or clamping.Destroyed for life.

They also called it a sweating nerve back them.Its not just a sweating nerve!!This nerve has also a huge impackt on the heart rythm,emotions,Mind,get your dick up,yea everything that the sympatic nervesystem is supoose to do.I just think its a gamblin,even if many people is satifayed.I am not a cowerd,and love to bet,gambel take challengers etc.But all that I have read up til now,Ijust not can ignore.

Another problem is that some are "luckier" than others.Some can feel a relife in 1 month,some 1 year,some 10 year and so on.I but suddenly your life can change after 5 year,and you have a living hell.

A fact about this surgeons is that they only follow up on ETS patient the first 6 mounths,and then they give a shit.That why I belive that their are caliming their sucsessrate so high.Ask them if they have follow them up 5-10 years later,and hear what they have to say then.Sure some are still satisfayed,but I think the sucsessrate had fallen at least 60-70& down the hill.!!

But best of luck,I dont blame you if you go ahead whit it.I understand the frustration myself.I have been there.:Ill take the chanse because I would rather be dead then live whit this hell,but I have change my mind about that now!


@ Kingflab

Don't be silly, we've all got the same problem, and it pisses us all of. Having a go at someone for not replying to a thread is just unnecessary.


Maybe I was a little silly,but Iam very sensitive like you guys on this HH shit,so when
[/code]


Haha, Takker deg meget mye.

Jeg lever i Amerika. Jeg har mye familien i Norge/Scandinavia slik de lærte meg noe språk. =]

Dets meget hardt men jeg liker din språk alot, og jeg liker Norge meget mye !

Men dont er gal på meg bifaller ? Du forstår til høyre ?

Hvis jeg får folk gal, blir motivert de meget mye. Selv om de får sint på meg, arbeider det meget godt. Slik folk prøv til å bevise meg gal og til å bli sterkere og hjelp themselfs.

Forstår du ? Eller tror du dets ikke arbeid ? Im ikke sikker.


Jeg har meget dårlig å svetting i mine hender & armpits. Slik håper jeg at ETS vil hjelpe meg. Dets mitt eneste angrep forlot. Ellers intet arbeidet. =/

Im som ikke posterer på denne siden mye mer, fordi folk er motivert nå til å snakke og til å hjelpe seg om ETS.

Im ikke dårlig person, lover jeg. hah =]

Hvor er du plassert ? & Hvordan snakker du slik flink til Engelsk ?


Hehe,jo Takker tilbake jeg også,,Sure_whynot.

Denne gang forsto jeg dessverre ikke alt du skrev,mn JA jeg forstår ditt poeng=point veldig godt.Angrep er beste motstand etter min levemåte også,men ikke i dette tilfelle,håper du skjønner meg?

Og jeg forstår deg også,skjønner og at du ikke er gal eller vil rakke ned på folk her inne.

Du prøvde og motivere, og få folk til og komme igang!!!,cut to the case liskom:)Tror heller ikke at du er en dårlig person:)Langtifra!

Men du var nok litt for frampå/arrogant,uhøflig på 2 post,husk vi er ikke bare idioter her inne,hehe.

Jeg bor/plassert i Stavanger,nevnte det på forrige post:)Hvor i U.S bor du da?

Snakker godt engelsk?.Hehe,jo takk for det!Ikke noe spesiell grunn til at jeg snakker godt engelsk.90% av befolkningen i Norge snakker engelsk,vi lærer det på skolen.Så ser jeg jo mye på amerikanske filmer/movies uten tekst/txt.Så da lærer man jo litt der også.

Men det er verre og skrive det korrekt,så derfor jeg har litt problemer med og diskutere på engelsk her inne:/

Ikke som i Spania,Tyskkland f.eks.Di ser også på amerikanske filmer,men språket er dubbet/oversatt til spansk,så di kan jo ikke ett ord engelsk.

Jeg hadde en kjæreste/girlfriend med slekt i Barcelona som vi besøkte og da slet jeg,di kunne verken engels/norsk og jeg kunne ikke spansk:)

Jeg er fremdeles imponert at hvor godt norsk du snakker,selv om ordene ikke helt faller i rett rekkefølge,men veldig bra.:):)

Så over til english:)

I think we should stop this to now and put it to rest like BiGz said.

I totally agree whith biGz and Kingflab on this ETS thing,but I understand Sure_whynot to.

We spoke a little on Norwegian here:) And the short version is.His reason was to motivate people in here to work harder,try to fire us up to try and find a permanent solution for this problem.And if some of us got angry,he hope that instead off attacking him.We would instead be motivated to try and fight to find a solution.

But I said to him that he came in here in the wrong and arrogant way,and got a hell of a loot of counter-arguement back,instead of motivations,hehe.

And yes he was arrogant and rude.Not on the first post,but at least on his second post.We are not cowards and idiots in here most of us.Actually the opposit!!!!!!

He think ETS is the answer,fine.But I do not.

And like I have said before.People in this forum is not stupid,and many of us has done our reaserch.Maybe I havent done all the reaserch that is on the internet,but enough for ME that I will not take ETS,thats wy I am saying to you now Sure_whynot.

Maybe I will look at your links,but I am very tired of hearing about ETS to,and I think that nobody can change my mind about ETS.I have heard enough,spoke,enough,wrote enough and have had enough on ETS conversation really.FINAL. I also have disscussed this alot on the Norwegian forum.

Sorry to say,but there isnt a forum that I am aware of, that tells only positive things about ETS?..Only some few people who come in here and there,and saying that it has been a lifesaver for them,even if thay have bad CS.But there can be aloot more more side-effect than CS to.But if people have HH so bad that the sweating is pooring out 24/7 maybe this is the best optium for them.

But think at the blushers. F,eks, they do not know how bad sweating can be,and when they take ETS and get the bad side-effects like severe CS,they go in shock.And only wants to die,take suicide e.t.c.We have some few examples on that in Norway.

But we who already have HH,yea we can maybe tolerate the side-effects a bit better then the blushers.Beecause We KNOW what its like!!But I only have moderate sweating,and have found my solutions for that,at least to know.But I have tried a lot of bullshitt to on the way.


BiGz sorry for the missunderstanding.I have read it again and I totaly understand what you was saing now:)
Im glad that you understood me to:)


Sure_whynot.

Thanks for the appologize,but it was not nessesary.

I understand you to.I only think that we are/is on diffrent levels about ETS at the moment,and still wish U the best of luck whatever you do.?And whit respect.

If you go true whit it and you get very unlucky,I will not attack you,and say I told you so.I will still try to help.But hope if you do ETS,maybe you can be one of the "lucky ones".

Its about how bad your HH is know to.And if you want to have a trade of,because thats what ETS is.You never know before after if the tradeoff of it was wurth it! And then there is NO going back.

So thats was what I had to say uptil now.

And now, I am only waiting for teandtoast to come in here again and say..:
WTF,this is to loong to read,haha:)
 
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