iontophoresis suddenly stopped working

[Damien27]

I'd been doing iontophoresis for my hands for about 8 months with incredible results. Then last month, the treatments started becoming less effective, and last week they stopped all together. I am absolutly horrified about what's going on. So I would like to get any advice that anyone can think of. I'll give some background to help.

I first started treatement in feburary 09 with the fisher 1a model. after about three sessions i noticed an almost complete fix. i felt like 95 to 99 percent cured. even in the most stressful settings, my hands were really dry. and it was actually one of the happiest times of my life. i never imagined how much better life could be without being constently embarrased about sweating. i did maitance treatements everyweek, and things were fine

Then i moved in nov. and that's when everhthing started to change. i was doing the same treatment frequency, but not seeing the same results. i would say i was like 80 cured. then last week i stopped seeing any effect all together, and i feel like i am worse than i every was. so i am despertly trying to figure out what's going on.

i feel like it must have to do with the water content of my new place. i mean when i fist moved in and started my first teatment, i couldn't get the necessary current levels. so i added backing soda, and for a while it work ok. but know it's not working at all.

so here are the steps i've already taken (there are a lot) - (1) since nov i've tried adding additional things to the water to make it harder (like mag and calcium from tablets i picked up at the drug store). it hasn't help. (2) i've tried to increase the frequency of the treatements. for example this week i did one session (10 mins for each hand (20 total)) everyday. i feel like this has made things worse. (3) yesterday i was so desperate that i went back to my old place (i'm still friends with some people who live there) and filled up a five gallon container of water to use. so since yesterday i've been using that water. and i actually did 1 session yesterday and three sessions (1 hour total) today. but this feels like the worst day yet.

Here are my specific questions: (1) does anyone know anything about iontophoresis suddenly stopping working. I mean is it a treatement that could become less effective over time. (2) if this is a water content issue, then how do i make my water at home effective (i mean i can't keep going back to my old place). (3) am i making things worse by overdoing the treatements, bc i feel like my hands have never sweated so much.

if anyone has any help i would really appreciate it. i struggled for years to try to get this problem fixed, and i felt like i was cureed. it really was life changing. i never felt so happy and confident in my life. and now i just feel like everything is slippying away. i am really desperate to get to the bottom of this and find out whether i have to give up on iontophoresis for something else or if there is some simple solution to make this work again.

 

[Broch]

I've been doing ionto steadily for about 3 months and haven't noticed any kind of decrease. Maybe after the 8 month mark I'll check back. Perhaps it's like anything else, and you build up resistance. Stop doing it altogether and tolerate the sweating for a couple weeks, then start again to see if it has any effect. That does really suck though.

 

[sirsam]

maybe instead of increasing the frequency, increase the amps? I don't think increasing the frequency will help because your hands need time to develop after each session if that makes any sense. It is like work out, your body need to rest after each workout. Also check if your machine is functioning properly with a voltmeter and ampmeter. Try adding salt to increase the conductivity of the water. Also, try adding 0.05% Glycopyrrolate solution. I don't think adding Mg and Ca tablets will help because the machine is basically an electorlytic cell. By adding Mg and Ca, you actually decrease the effectiveness of the machine because all the electrons will be reducing the Mg and Ca instead of going to your hands.(Just my opinion, I am not a professional). That is all I can think of right now, hope it helps.

 

[Jezza]

Dude, that blows...

Maybe you should think about getting some new metal plates...I have some aluminium ones myself and I add baking soda to the trays to make the water harder. It's not so much for getting the amps up but it feels a lot less painful with the soda somehow.

Anyway, point is soda is hell on aluminium. Aluminium usually doesn't 'rust' but soda attacks it in a way that it becomes very oxidative (sorry bit hard to explain the technical details in english). I could imagine the plates slowly 'drop off' in effectiveness after some time. I have only been doing ionto for a month now (I tried once before but didn't work) so I don't know if there is any way of knowing if or when the plates are done but this might be an issue.

I have an idromed and they sell seperate new plates for about 50 euros I think (I read this on a forum once). Maybe if you make some yourself it can be cheaper...Again, not sure this is the problem though or if it would even matter if the plates are damaged as long as the current is flowing...but you might want to check it out.

 

[Broch]

Hmmm... could be plates. I use aluminum pie pans for my homemade one and it works fine.

 

[Damien27]

i'd like to thank everyone for their advice and support. it actually really means a lot to me. i'm pretty embarrased to talk about this with most people i know. and it's nice to hear from people who i undertand. i mean i think a lot of people look at me like i'm crazy when i tell them about HH.

anyway, i have some good news to report. i'm cautiously optomistic that the treatments have regained their effectiveness. i woke up this morning and things weren't any better. then i did two treatements with the water from my old place, and about a half hour after my last treatement my hands just stopped sweating. so i'm really hoping that things stay this way

I have to admit i was pretty freaked out by what was going on. i mean i felt like the character in "flowers for algernon" the guy who had an iq of 60 and then undergoes a surgury to make him more intelligent. it works and he become really smart, but he eventually learns that the treatment is temporary and eventually he goes back to having and iq of 60. also i felt like a ganster in one of those 40s ganster movies who's about to get caught and is like, "nay see, no coper is taking me back to the bighouse." the bighouse in my analogy would be like having super sweating palms again.

and here's to hoping that things stay effective. i'll post something in a couple of days with and update. also i'm sure that if thigns don't stay good, i'll post some message sounding completely freaked out.

so again, i would just like to thank everyone. and if this ever happens to anyone, feel free to contact me, and i will provide what ever help i can. i would also recommend taking some water with you when you move (if that's at all practical. i was only like 20 mins from my old place) bc i think water content is really important.

 

[sirsam]

i'd like to thank everyone for their advice and support. it actually really means a lot to me. i'm pretty embarrased to talk about this with most people i know. and it's nice to hear from people who i undertand. i mean i think a lot of people look at me like i'm crazy when i tell them about HH.

anyway, i have some good news to report. i'm cautiously optomistic that the treatments have regained their effectiveness. i woke up this morning and things weren't any better. then i did two treatements with the water from my old place, and about a half hour after my last treatement my hands just stopped sweating. so i'm really hoping that things stay this way

I have to admit i was pretty freaked out by what was going on. i mean i felt like the character in "flowers for algernon" the guy who had an iq of 60 and then undergoes a surgury to make him more intelligent. it works and he become really smart, but he eventually learns that the treatment is temporary and eventually he goes back to having and iq of 60. also i felt like a ganster in one of those 40s ganster movies who's about to get caught and is like, "nay see, no coper is taking me back to the bighouse." the bighouse in my analogy would be like having super sweating palms again.

and here's to hoping that things stay effective. i'll post something in a couple of days with and update. also i'm sure that if thigns don't stay good, i'll post some message sounding completely freaked out.

so again, i would just like to thank everyone. and if this ever happens to anyone, feel free to contact me, and i will provide what ever help i can. i would also recommend taking some water with you when you move (if that's at all practical. i was only like 20 mins from my old place) bc i think water content is really important.

I'm glad it is starting to work again.
It's funny you mentioned "flowers for algernon", it brings back so many memories
anyways, best of luck

 

[Damien27]

so things have been good for the past three days. today was the best day off all. so i'm thinking that i have things under control. and i hope it lasts.

but this whole experience has really made me realize that i should probably be seeing a dermatologist about HH. i mean that why i could go to someone who could give me some advice on why a treatment suddenly stops working. rather than just being left to guess and assume the worst. i mean i've gotten the iontophoresis unit and some other perscription deoderants through a family doctor. but i don't think he really understands the condition. i mean i feel like that is almost the hardest thing about things - that it's hard to find people who understand.

typically when i go to my family doc, i just tell him things i want to try. and he's like "whatever. you want iontophoresis. here's a prescription for it." and that's it. so i've basically been treating myself for this with the consent of my family doc. and not that i have anything against family docs but i don't really think they see this condition a lot. i really feel like it's time that i see a specalist who can actually give me some advice on treatements. and i'm lucky that i have insurance to cover it.

i mean i feel like one of my biggest criticism of the people i deal with is that they really don't think HH is a serious condition. and that drives me nuts. but i almost think i'm guilty of the very thing i'm so critical of. if i actually took this with the seriousness it deserves, i think i would have seen a specialist a while ago. i mean i don't try to treat any other condition i have by myself. even something as basic as i toothach i wouldn't handle by looking stuff up on the internet and telling my dentist what procedures i want to follow. and if my dentist didn't actually direct my treatment, i wouldn't go back to him. but i go back to the same doc over and over for HH who doesn't really do anything but what i ask him to do.

anyway, i feel like i post messages that are too long. thanks again to everyone. and by the way, i did read through some other threads in this HH forum that talk about the importance of mineral content in iontophoresis. so maybe there is something to mineral content.

 

[Jezza]

Yeah it would be nice if some research would be done into how ionto works. The 'it plugs the sweat glands' theory is something that a bright 10 year old probably came up with but hardly seems to have any scientific foundation.

On the rest of your story; I've seen a few specialists over the years (2 dermatologists, 3 neurologists, 1 endocrinologist -if that's the english word-). Finding one who takes HH seriously is hard, finding one who has the intention of REALLY trying to understand the mechanism or come up with the best treatment has proven to be impossible to me, at least till now.

The best of them was the endocrinologist, she gradually took an interest...but then left on maturnity leave and didn't come back. And I doubt the standard tests that are common place today are the answer anyway otherwise that answer was already found.

I understand it's hard for people to understand HH...It's hard to accept for them that it's more than just 'sweating a bit more than others'. Still it's very very frustrating how the medical community treats this condition and how some specialist feel the need to be plain rude.

 

[sirsam]

Yeah it would be nice if some research would be done into how ionto works. The 'it plugs the sweat glands' theory is something that a bright 10 year old probably came up with but hardly seems to have any scientific foundation.

On the rest of your story; I've seen a few specialists over the years (2 dermatologists, 3 neurologists, 1 endocrinologist -if that's the english word-). Finding one who takes HH seriously is hard, finding one who has the intention of REALLY trying to understand the mechanism or come up with the best treatment has proven to be impossible to me, at least till now.

The best of them was the endocrinologist, she gradually took an interest...but then left on maturnity leave and didn't come back. And I doubt the standard tests that are common place today are the answer anyway otherwise that answer was already found.

I understand it's hard for people to understand HH...It's hard to accept for them that it's more than just 'sweating a bit more than others'. Still it's very very frustrating how the medical community treats this condition and how some specialist feel the need to be plain rude.

I know it's hard to find any doctor to take HH seriously. My dermatologist is very nice and tries to explain all the likely causes to me, but even him seems to lack interest in finding the true reason.

 

[Uber Schnitzel]

I second what most people are saying: even dermatologists don't understand/care much about the condition either. I've always thought this strange since by there nature they treat people with other skin conditions which while only cosmetic, really have a negative effect on their lives - similar to HH. Alas, not to sound too negative but - you're on your own (apart from us here of course!) As my old boss used to say, that's not too hard, that's character building!

 

[hinder87]

dont worry tc. ive been doing ionto since 05 and to this day, it hasnt lost its effectiveness.

 

[beckiboo]

I had the same problem, it worked perfectly for a few months then stopped working altogether. I agree with replacing/cleaning the metal plates first, I use vaseline on the waterline to stop irritation and it builds up on the metal and I guess this will have a detremantal effect.
secondly, I take breaks from it, sometimes 2-3 months and when I start again I have good results.
just a couple of ideas there, im still searching for the perfect setup and routine to make it work well myself, good luck to you and let us know how youre getting on! =)

 

[Damien27]

Thanks so much for all the messages and advice. I know i said this before, but it is really nice to discuss this with people who understand.

I'm also happy to say that things have been going really well for the past two weeks. I feel like the treatments have become completely effective again. I've been using the water from my old place, and it looks like that did the trick. having this under control really has become very important to me. and i really feel so much happier now that things are going better again.

I'm actually pretty determined to get to the bottom of what's going on. So i'm going to buy water testing strips and try to change some stuff up and see what happens.

I noticed that I'm using a much different unit that it looks like most of you are using. Mine is made by RA fisher co., which doesn't use a metallic bath tray. it's just a plastic tray you place your hands in. i imagine the electrods have some metal element, but i don't know what it is yet. my thought (and it's just my opinion based on a complete lack of scientific training) that because the RA fisher co. unit has less metallic parts than some of the other devises, it is particularly suspetible to changes in water content. i am assuming that the metal particals in the water are what causes the iontophoresis unit to work (and i'm basing assumption (which i realize is a big one) on some of the other threads i've read in this forum and the fact that i think aluminum is the active ingrediat in most anti persperints). I really feel like there probably is not enough metal content in the water in my new place.

So i'm trying to come up with some thoughts on how to add metal content. one thought i had a couple of small strips of aluminum foil and add them to the water.

i really am going to test out my water and see what's going on. i probably will reach absolutely no conclusion or make any progress, but i'll give it a shot.

and i was also sorry to hear that so many of you have had bad experiences with specalists. i was really hoping that that would be a good way to get a better grasp of how to treat and prevent HH. i mean it would be nice if i didn't have to come up with crazy solutions (bc i will admit that adding strips of aluminum to water sounds pretty bizarre. i guess it makes me sound like pretty soon i'll be wearing an aluminum foil hat and hoping that it somehow makes the treatements work better). but it is also good to know what to expect and to not get my hopes up too high. right now i'm in the process of getting referrals etc., which is a much more complicated then it needs to be.

ok. well i really do appricate the toughts and advice.