identified with Seung-Hui Cho

anynickname

New member
Hello everybody.

Ok, let's forget for a minute what Cho did last week, many people are condemning him, despite the fact that he was diagnosed mentally ill and nobody helped him.

But as I said, let's forgot about that, I'm sad because everybody in the news describe Cho's behavior of a loner as being abnormal, they make it sound as it was a crime to be a loner, somebody in fox news said he would had asked for a change of roommate because he wouldn't had liked somebody who doesn't talk, and I don't find anything wrong with somebody who doesn‘t talk , they also say that they are surprised that Cho even with his shyness was in college, aren't any social phobics who go to college? I'm one of them, they also say that he shouldn't had been admitted in the college because of his extremely shyness.

What do you think about all this? As I already said twice, forget what he did last Monday, just focus on what the media is saying about Cho's years in middle school, high school and college.

Thank you very much for your time.
 

appletree

Well-known member
every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
things like this don't just happen because of whatever people in the media like people to believe.
things such as evil, bulshit such as influence from rock stars, movies etc, i am thinking in particular of when marylin manson was blamed for columbine despite the boys who did it not even being manson fans.
cho was bullied earlier in his life and no i am not saying that this in any way justifies what he did, nothing can justify that.
all i am saying is that it is so easy to lay the blame on one thing, you just wait the media will pick on a particular band/movie/book cho was a fan of and it will be down to that, america will as it always does completly disregard the fact that maybe this like previous massacres was a tragic result of a greedy competative selfish culture that manifests itself so overtly in schools.
and also, i agree that the media picking up on chos shyness as a hint to the terrible things he would do is absolutly appauling.
being shy has nothing whatsoever to do with violent tendancies, i am sure you could find some extraverted serial killers.
-mark.
 

appletree

Well-known member
also out of interest i am a fan of manson, and i think his song the nobodies is once again of particular interest regarding this.

We are the nobodies
We wanna be somebodies
When we'redead,
They'll know just who we are

Some children died the other day
We fed machines and then we prayed
Puked up and down in morbid faith
You should have seen the ratings that day

cho got exactly what he wanted, i cannot believe nbc news (i think..)
awful decision to show the pictures he sent in, it's always seemed pretty fucked up to me.
like..oh this is awful, lets get a better shot of it, move the camera in so we can see it all yehh.
children dying is all just entertainment for adults.
 

prince1

Well-known member
appletree said:
also out of interest i am a fan of manson, and i think his song the nobodies is once again of particular interest regarding this.

We are the nobodies
We wanna be somebodies
When we'redead,
They'll know just who we are

Some children died the other day
We fed machines and then we prayed
Puked up and down in morbid faith
You should have seen the ratings that day

cho got exactly what he wanted, i cannot believe nbc news (i think..)
awful decision to show the pictures he sent in, it's always seemed pretty fucked up to me.
like..oh this is awful, lets get a better shot of it, move the camera in so we can see it all yehh.
children dying is all just entertainment for adults.

You think adults are entertained by children dying, what adults do you associate with? I think its shown because like me im not impressed with what he did Obviously, but still i find it intresting to see videos of him, probely for the fact that he is a mass murderer, i just wonder what went on in his head.
 

Toad

Well-known member
I haven't watched or followed this much, but from what I have seen, I have been annoyed by the way the media has made it sound that being quiet and shy is wrong. I would imagine people would describe me in similar ways to how Cho was described...quiet, in his own world, a loner, etc. I don't know the circumstances surrounding Cho before he did what he did, but I do know if you push people to far they snap. When you snap, you just stop thinking and start reacting. I've been there a couple times, but I've always been able to regain control of myself shortly after I lost it.
 

LittleMissMuffet

Well-known member
I think that people know so very little about the mind and the problems that the mind can have, that they oversimplify 'mental illness'. People quickly jump the gun and become worried, drawing black-and-white lines dividing the 'sane' from the 'insane'.

You may have noticed this insecurity within yourself. It comes from uncertainty. We just don't understand the mind well enough.
But precisely because of our uncertainty about the mind and who a person is (what they are capable of etc) is why we feel the urge to order our world even whilst we don't understand it properly.

Notice that not even the so-called experts on the mind (the professionals at the clinic which Cho was sent to by worried teachers at his university)were able to agree on the threat Cho posed to society and to himself. they released him.

People panic when it comes to mass murder. They need to find some explanation for why Cho did what he did.
...How do we understand what an individual is capable of? How can we predict who will lash out like Cho and who will not?

So, people find a more obvious and simple explanation for why he did what he did. ...and whilst it is overly simplistic, it satisfies the human need for security and order. ...Human beings are complicated. The mind is complicated and we know so little -how do we bring a sense of safety and security to this unpredictability.

All prejudice springs from ignorance. Uncertainty underlies all anxieties. Yet it is this inability to tolerate -and perhaps really to know how to live with- uncertainties and unknowns that creates a black-and-white world of the 'sane, normal extroverts' and 'insane, abnormal mass-murdering introverts'. (...in other words, it is this attitude of prejudice towards 'introverted loners' that (sometimes) helps to create 'mass-muerdering introverted loners'.)

...this is true, because even if Cho was bound to lash out regardless, prejudice towards introverts and loners would have played at least some part in his decision to kill people, just as a more inclusive society would not create as many dejected and angry outcasts. (Perhaps America is particularly inclined to create social outcasts. It would appear that this is the case, for example, the percentage of American's with social anxiety is one of the greatest in the world.)

If attitudes in Western countries and especially America should not take some responsibility for the blame of creating angry, violent loners -Asian countries have a lower percentage of social phobia just as introverted children are more accepted- then one could argue that America's gun laws ask for massacres. (Also, why did the mental health authorities release Cho, believing that he was not a threat to others?)

But back to the specific point...
The real point is that human beings are unpredictable. If people want predictability and to minimise mass murder- either get rid of guns, improve mental health treatments, change attitudes towards introversion, or all of these. ...Instead of course, people choose the easier option which is to control their world by creating even more division. It's too hard to change inner attitudes, and therefore all the pressure to adapt is left to the group that is marginalised - and loners get the bad rap. They are told to change, to stop being introverted and quiet and to "Fit in, or else...!"

I think that this is why Jesus emphasised society's outcasts as being more likely to 'enter the Kingdom' than most others. He emphasises this point more than once. He also says a few times (in the Gospel of Thomas) - "Blessed are the solitary and the chosen."

So, according to some people, being quiet and also being a loner can be quite a blessed thing. ...well at least some people are able to see both sides and keep some perspective!! (Jung actually believed that Introverts were superior to extroverts, despite that society judged it vice versa).

You have to also remember that the media is biased. They report what makes the most sensation. For example, I recently read an article about a book on women who were socially isolated and bullied throughout their teens who later went on to become great writers. There are heaps of these stories of 'losers who became winners'. - young men who suffered depression to go on to become aid workers; heroine addicts and prostitutes who went on to become authors or community workers and leaders, etc, etc... Social outcasts who turn into mass murderers makes the headlines much more often than social outcast who turn into humanitarians. And yet, apparently human beings are that complicated that struggle and adversity can make as well as break a person.
...of course, you know this already. But it is good still, isn't it, to be reminded.
 

Fidgey

Active member
Unfortunately it has always been wrong for the majority to be a loner. By the whole it is not regarded by the masses as a positive attribute. I am very much a loner due to my SP and have always tried to bullshit myself and others into thinking I am not.
 
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