I am really friendly with a girl I met over the internet...

[Jim_Bergerac]

About 5 years ago I met a girl on the internet from another country in Europe through playing backgammon online.

We really got on brilliantly when playing games, chatting non stop and we swapped email address and then phone numbers and we text and phone each other and we are really really good friends.

I have never met her, I have never had the confidence to do it - even though she has asked me over any time I want to see her. We were really close and about 2 and a half years ago she met someone and basically our friendship seemed to fade, which is understandable, its not fair on her then boyfriend if she is always contacting me, I know I wouldn't like it if I had met a girlfriend who was always contacting some other guy.
However she started contacting me a year ago and she had some troubles in her life and she split with this boyfriend and now we are extremely close again, she says I am the nice guy she has been searching for. We did exchange pics about 3 years ago and I don't think she was too impressed but can't have been that bad as she seems to like me a lot. Her pics were not very clear back then, but yesterday she sent me a recent photo and I am absolutely distraught - she looks like Penelope Cruz, absolutely gorgeous. I know this is silly to be so disappointed that she looks so nice, but I just now feel I am so out of my league. I absolutely adore her as a person, I wouldn't care how she looked and I must admit I hoped she would not be great looking as then I wouldn't feel so inferior. How can I meet her - my biggest insecurity are my looks. I just fear she will look at me and think oh my god he is so ugly, help!!! I really do fear that if I did meet her it would put her off me forever and I would lose my most amazing friend in the world.

I also realise that I have got to get confident - if I can be confident if I do go and meet her then I am confident I can still impress her loads as she always says I am the nicest guy she has ever known and I am such a special person to her. But if I am not confident I will not be the real me that she knows.

I guess there really isn't a question for me to ask here, I just wanted to get it off my mind. Has anyone else ever experienced something like this? I guess probably not? But I can't meet her until I sort out my confidence problems. Any thoughts on what I should do? I just do not feel ready whatsoever to meet her.

 

[Higolo]

Go on then mate, let us see her pic :mrgreen:

 

[Jim_Bergerac]

Well its a photograph and I don't have a scanner so I can't. But I am not joking she looks so alike - really stylish dark hair, she is naturally tanned, slim, gorgeous dark eyes, just looks so pretty.

I want to believe I am good enough but I just feel stupid, I feel its unfair on her that she wastes her time with me, she can do so much better than me! And I don't say that for sympathy - but look at me - I look pants, I have really little confidence, my ambitions are non existant because of my confidence. I know personality and intelligence wise I am good enough for sure, but I have got to overcome this Social phobia/zero confidence right away.

 

[Meow]

HELLO AGAIN JIM LOL

Well.... I was in a similar situation, I could go on about this ALL day long lol.

My husband and I met online on a message board, he lived in America, I lived in England... I liked him a lot thru his posts before even seeing his pictures and apparently he felt the same way. Then we exchanged pics and went on webcam etc.... well almost a year later I went to visit him in California and we ended up getting married and i've been here ever since. I'm legal, with a social security number, permanant resident card etc. So it can happen... it just takes the guts.

If she is offering for you to go visit, you should do it... if you really like her and feel a connection, I know you're paranoid about the way you look and feel inferior etc but it really doesn't matter, she obviously likes you for you and probably your looks too if she's interested!!! Take her up on her offer, don't let it pass by.... I'm so glad I got on that plane and made the trip because it changed my life. I've been here about 2.5 years, and it was the best decision I ever made. Sure we have problems and there's days I think... fuck this lol. But I love him from the bottom of my heart and he loves me just the same, if i'd never got the courage to get on that plane we would never of been.

Looks don't have anything to do with it... When I first got here he had a really horrible skin condition on his face but it didn't bother me because I saw HIM for him. And i'm not exactly gorgeous myself and he saw me for me... you know? He's 15 years older than me, and altho people talked shit and said we'd never make it and didn't agree with our relationship, we proved them wrong.

Ahhhhhh he's my best friend

I hope this is some kind of insperation or something.... :wink:

 

[Falcon]

Jim,

I want you to succeed. But you need more help than I can give here. You need to do some "me-work" before you meet her. But let me make some points.

Typically, women are not as concerned about looks as men. Sure, they can drool over a hot guy, but biologically they are just less visually oriented than men. There are good evolutionary reasons for this. So don't worry about the parts of your looks you can't change (e.g. big nose, ugly face, etc). That said, the parts of your looks you CAN change, you should - it can only help you. Get a decent haircut. Clear up that acne. Start working out to lose some weight and get good muscle tone. Buy some cheap yet stylish clothes. Etc.

However, the bad news is that women are attracted to CONFIDENCE, and you don't seem to have much. It's much easier to be confident and flirtatious over the internet, text, or the phone, than it is in person, so I URGE you to do some real introspection and confidence work before you meet her. Lack of confidence could be a real deal breaker with her. It's the quickest way to end up in the "friend zone" (where she enjoys your company, but is not attracted to you as a potential lover).

Finally, some misc. points about women.

a) Don't supplicate. Don't buy her flowers, run errands for her, fix her computer, call endlessly, etc, until you're actually dating her.

b) Don't fix her relationship problems. If she complains to you about a boyfriend, or her mom, or anything...DO NOT listen and offer advice. Just validate her emotions and try to shift the conversational topic. Fixing her problems or offering advice is a great way to end up in the "friend zone".

c) Don't exude desperation. If she's the only one you're interested in or seeing, that's going to be a problem. Women can sense desperation, and it's very unattractive. Try to meet and date some other women before you go meet her - it will make you less needy, which will translate to a better chance of success.

I just do not feel ready whatsoever to meet her

This is absolutely key. You are not ready to meet her. But you can be, with a bit of work. You've been friends for 5 years, so presumably taking a few months to improve your confidence levels won't be a problem.

 

[Jim_Bergerac]

Thanks for your comments Meow - you are such a sweet person and you are so so so so silly saying you are not great looking - you have the face of an angel, I bet everyone agrees with me when I say you are totally gorgeous!

I really admire you for going for what you wanted and getting it. Were you really nervous when you got on the plane? You see my anxiety problems differ from yours in that I feel when she seems me I will be rejected totally and instead of experiencing the best time ever, I will feel unwanted and that she can't wait for me to get back on the plane home and that will just destroy me, not only losing someone I adore but then just feel I am just the most undesirable person ever and then place even more importance on looks - as if I am rejected its because I don't look nice enough.

I do want to meet her, but I want to feel confident and like I have overcome my confidence/social anxiety problems. This is a great motivational reason for me to beat this stupid thing.

Meow - I am so glad you found happiness, you really deserve it, you are so nice! Hey by the way, where in the UK were you from? Is California nicer? I am in Durham.

 

[Meow]

I dunno if I agree with much that you said there Falcon, like I said my man had a horrible facial skin condition when I met him... didn't bother me. He doesn't work out... doesn't bother me. He wears whatever the fuck he likes... I like that.

Women aren't only drawn to confident men, overly confident men make me SICK and put me off. My man is shy sometimes, but confident when it comes to his work. I wouldn't have him any other way.

I think your A, B, and C tips are ridiculous... no one should have to THINK this much in detail about meeting up with someone!!!

Don't buy her flowers untill your dating her? yadayada, give me flowers I love them. I agree don't call endlessly, but do call.. often. why not?

My husband, before we met up offered a lot of help and advice on my family problems... including sending me money when I really needed it and he definitley didn't end up on the FRIEND zone.

If my guy had dated or seen other women right before i'd got on a frickin plane to see him I woulda been PUT OFF and kicked his fuckin ass. That's unatractive. I am so damn glad I was the ONLY one he was interested in, it didn't make him desperate or come across desperate it made me feel wanted and needed and that made him MORE attractive to me. How is being interested in only one women "needy"?

Neither myself or my husband did any "prep" work before meeting eachother, he cleaned his apartment and I got a new hair do... that's about as far as it goes because what's the point in trying to be or ACT like someone else?

I'm sorry but your advice stinks LOL

 

[Meow]

Thanks for your comments Meow - you are such a sweet person and you are so so so so silly saying you are not great looking - you have the face of an angel, I bet everyone agrees with me when I say you are totally gorgeous!

I really admire you for going for what you wanted and getting it. Were you really nervous when you got on the plane? You see my anxiety problems differ from yours in that I feel when she seems me I will be rejected totally and instead of experiencing the best time ever, I will feel unwanted and that she can't wait for me to get back on the plane home and that will just destroy me, not only losing someone I adore but then just feel I am just the most undesirable person ever and then place even more importance on looks - as if I am rejected its because I don't look nice enough.

I do want to meet her, but I want to feel confident and like I have overcome my confidence/social anxiety problems. This is a great motivational reason for me to beat this stupid thing.

Meow - I am so glad you found happiness, you really deserve it, you are so nice! Hey by the way, where in the UK were you from? Is California nicer? I am in Durham.

You're SUCH a sweetheart!!!! See, how can ANY women not love you!!! LOL. You probably think i'm an evil bitch after my comments to Falcon but it is how I feel.

I was very nervous about not being what he expected, nervous about certain flaws I feel I have on my body and my face but he totally accepted me for who I was, inside and out. And here is is today booking my doctors appointments and tyring to help me heal and get better.

Ok I understand your fears Jim I really do... about being rejected etc, but I severely doubt that is what is going to happen!! she wouldn't be offering you to come visit, that is such a big thing... if she wasn't sure she would atleast have a good time with you. I am positive you will come out of it ATLEAST better friends. No one is going to reject you. And on the slight tiny tiny tiny possibility it does go wrong ATLEAST you tried!!! You don't want to look back in a few years when she's moved on because you waited a bit too long and think "I wish I had atleast tried, now I will never know" I feel you owe it to yourself to give it a shot. You are a fantastic person, I can tell this from our few pm's... I don't know what you look like and already it doesn't matter because you are so lovely.
She has seen your picture... and she still wants to be close to you and have to visit her, that has to mean something hey

Yeah of course you want to feel more confident etc and yes you should work on that ANYWAY, not just because you're going to meet a girl. Anxiety and confidence problems take a long time to fix... do you want to wait that long? please do work on yourself, I am too.. but I can't put my life on hold while I do it. I'll still meet new people at concerts etc and meet up with old friends. Next month I'm meeting up with an old friend in a band I haven't seen in 3 years! I'm nervous and shy and scared but I'm not going to NOT go just incase we don't hit it off anymore.

I actually have a friend that lives in Durham! I've been there and liked it a lot. I am from a town in Suffolk, which is kind of south east but not deep south. Edit: forgot to answer a Q lol... ermmm California is cool, southern california is nicer than northern in my opinion, and im up north. It's just very different... I miss England sometimes but I couldn't live there again.

 

[Jim_Bergerac]

Falcon - some good advice there and I agree about needing to become confident for when I meet her. I also agree confidence is of key importance for women and I understand that. Typically a man is supposed to be confident and in control, not some scaredy cat.

Also - you are a bit wrong about my appearance - I get my haircut every 4 weeks, its cool, I am in good shape - I have a rowing machine which I use lots. I spent huge amounts on nice clothes in the last year or so. I don't have acne. I just so insecure about my nose. And I think that is what makes me ugly. I have had a few small relationships with women and met women on nights out and most have been not only clever and nice but really pretty. But nothing lasted - my confidence I think was the problem, I may get on well with them but I don't have that X factor - like confidence or looks.

But hey I hope you can see from my mails just how determined and committed I am in trying to overcome this. I dream of overcoming it. I don't ever like to dwell on problems, I just think I have to beat this.

 

[Falcon]

Falcon - some good advice there and I agree about needing to become confident for when I meet her. I also agree confidence is of key importance for women and I understand that. Typically a man is supposed to be confident and in control, not some scaredy cat.

Yep, exactly. BTW, PLEASE don't listen to any women's comments on what I wrote (incl. Meow's). The phrase "nice guys finish last" is so true - and yet every woman will say she wants a nice (sweet) guy. This doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, insult her, etc. It just means that you shouldn't supplicate. Showing up at the first date with a rose, for instance, is just about the worst thing you can do.

Every woman wants a confident, attractive, fun, man who will sweep her off her feet yet still make her work for it. They don't want a guy who unabashedly throws himself at her. Sometimes women will claim this, but that may be because she herself has not had the first experience (and the good feelings resulting from it), but she HAS had the second (and the good, albeit less good, feelings resulting from it).

If there's one thing you do, PUHLEEZ do not listen to what any woman says about this.

I have nothing against Meow, it sounds like she's very happy and in a great relationship.

I would also not recommend women listen to guys' advice on how to pick up guys, for instance.

People in general are very BAD at articulating what turns them on.

Also - you are a bit wrong about my appearance - I get my haircut every 4 weeks, its cool, I am in good shape - I have a rowing machine which I use lots. I spent huge amounts on nice clothes in the last year or so. I don't have acne. I just so insecure about my nose. And I think that is what makes me ugly.

I wasn't actually guessing about your appearance, those were just general thigns that many guys who are insecure about their appearance have to fix. It's great to hear that you are well groomed an in shape. Don't even worry about your nose. A guy who dresses well, has a decent haircut, and is fit is 99.99% of the way there.

I have had a few small relationships with women and met women on nights out and most have been not only clever and nice but really pretty. But nothing lasted - my confidence I think was the problem, I may get on well with them but I don't have that X factor - like confidence or looks.

Dude, you are so there!!! You've dated beautiful women before, so why does this one make you afraid? Just remember, you're attractive, you're fun, and SHE is lucky that YOU are interested !!

But hey I hope you can see from my mails just how determined and committed I am in trying to overcome this. I dream of overcoming it. I don't ever like to dwell on problems, I just think I have to beat this.

Excellent attitude!! Let us know how it goes.

 

[Jim_Bergerac]

Meow - no I don't think you are evil about your thoughts on Falcon's comments, I agreed with his views about confidence but I didn't pay much attention to how to treat her and like not buy her flowers - like I say - I love my personality zillions. I wouldn't change anything about how I treat people, I am really well clued in. But I don't mean to sound ungrateful for his views - each to their own.

I think England is a worse place now you are not here : ) I love all your comments and advice, you are totally ace person!

 

[Luckiecharm]

When are you guys gonna learn? Women LOVE shy, sensitive, intelligent guys. Like Meow, I can't stand over-confident guys and I would hate if someone was only interested in me for how I looked. We don't want someone that's shallow and selfish. Why do you think we all LOVE bands like Coldplay and Keane? Because they are really sensitive, intelligent guys talking about their feelings, hopes and fears
Also, I think it is too much pressure to try and counter-act your low self-confidence by telling yourself 'I must be confident'. You can't expect to change the habits of a lifetime just like that. I think the only way to begin to change is by accepting who you are. Ok, so you are a little low in the confidence stakes right now, but that's okay!! I think we all ended up in this mess in the first place because we resist our feelings (I don't want to feel scared/shy/etc.) If you start to feel comfortable with your (perceived) flaws, then you will be more relaxed and more ... YOU! Stop buying into the marketing machine that tells you what women want - it's usually men who make up those ads, and they obviously haven't a clue what women want!!
Be yourself and let people love you for who you are (I'm going to try and practice what I preach too!) :wink:

 

[Quixote]

When are you guys gonna learn? Women LOVE shy, sensitive, intelligent guys. Like Meow, I can't stand over-confident guys

And when will you girls stop telling all these dull politically correct things *every time* these kind of issues are raised? We all understand you don't like macho-like bullies, but that is not what is meant by the word "self confidence". Would you like someone who is calm, understanding, but witty and able to make you feel at ease and entertained? Well that's self confidence, like it or not. On the other hand, would you date a guy who is afraid to make a phone call, can't find a job, has no friends, lives at home with his parents while wasting day after day without purpose? That's an example of severe lack of confidence, and you would find it severely unattractive wouldn't you?

I think when you say you like shy guys it's because in actuality you imagine some rather confident guy but one who is also sensitive and cares a lot about you, to the point that he may feel even slightly "embarassed" in your presence. Because he loves you so much. Actual shyness and social phobia are a different matter.

Please do not mention all the "exceptions" and "possibilities" that "might" "prove" me wrong, if you understand what I mean you should probably just agree.

 

[Mary]

Hi quixote couldn't resist! :wink: You forgot one thing in your theory, one loophole if you will..the women here have Sp as well and are more understanding of guys who have it too, and even if women don't have Sp we tend to be more sympathetic to these types of things in general. In other words, I think its more of an issue w/guys than w/ girls. And if a guy we love or a friend has a problem we will be supportive and try to help not judge, well I can't speak for all of us but I think most of us will. :wink:

 

[young]

This topic makes me laugh for some reason. You should listen to all of Falcons advice. Since i'm sure he's married to the most perfect person in the whole wide world... :roll:

...

Anyways.. Ok, you say she wasn't impressed? Well you can't really be too sure about that. Unless she actually told you that she wasn't impressed. Looks truly are in the eye of the beholder. For what is attractive and gorgeous to one, may be hideous and ugly to the other.

If you sent here your pic. And she is still talking to you. And still would want to meet you. Than she musn't think your ugly. Otherwise she would just stop talking to you. It's the net, that's what they do.

Looks aren't everything. Confidence in yourself does help. They say you can't truly love someone if you can't love yourself. But lack of self esteem doesn't mean you can't meet the women of your dreams. Granted it is a huge obstacle. Since well, you can't really meet anyone if you don't say hi. Unless you get really really really really lucky and she says hi to you. It seldomly happens.

If you've been talking to her for the past couple of years. Which if she lives across see, I don't want to see your phone bill. Than you have something going for you. Friendship. And that's a HUGE plus.. Lots of couples never get to that level. And it dooms the relationship. Well frankly your significant other really is your best friend. Anyone who sleeps next to me and gives it up for me. And has access to sharps knives while I sleep certainly gets to the top of the list. :lol:

 

[crazyfairyx]

I totally agree with meow and worrydoll, my boyfriend is a sweetie who treats me really well and when I first got with him my mates were always asking me why cos they didn't think he was attractive enough! Like I care if my mates fancy him lol, as long as I do that's all that counts. We've been together 3 yrs now

 

[crazyfairyx]

And when will you girls stop telling all these dull politically correct things *every time* these kind of issues are raised? We all understand you don't like macho-like bullies, but that is not what is meant by the word "self confidence". Would you like someone who is calm, understanding, but witty and able to make you feel at ease and entertained? Well that's self confidence, like it or not. On the other hand, would you date a guy who is afraid to make a phone call, can't find a job, has no friends, lives at home with his parents

My boyfriend did have SA symptoms when we got together, and still does to a lesser degree. SOME girls want smooth talking confident guys, some girls like cute shy guys, not all girls are the same, not all men are the same, that's a fact. The only reason lots of guys think that all girls' want is confident guys is because it's generally the loudest, most often heard girls that are the ones saying it, the girls who like shy guys often fade into the background, or are already with a cute shy guy.

 

[Meow]

Yep, exactly. BTW, PLEASE don't listen to any women's comments on what I wrote (incl. Meow's). The phrase "nice guys finish last" is so true - and yet every woman will say she wants a nice (sweet) guy. This doesn't mean you have to be a jerk, insult her, etc. It just means that you shouldn't supplicate. Showing up at the first date with a rose, for instance, is just about the worst thing you can do.

umm...yeah what do women know about what women want? lol.

listen to meow.

my gf was a holiday romance. she lived in holland i lived in jersey. she is from a wealthy family..i was a single mum on welfare living in the ghetto. she left the family business and all her friends and came and lived with me in the ghetto for eight years. now we are here in holland. everybody told me to forget it...everyone told her that too...yah boo sucks to them...go for it..be yourself...dont play macho games...she loves you for who you are. go for it...whats to lose? good luck. x

Yeah don't listen to what EVERY women is saying on here haha.

That's so romantic about your GF and you, i'm a sucka for that stuff. It's so great... see love knows no boundries or whatever the saying is. Love doesn't care about money and all that BS.

Do you have anymore photos of your GF or you and her together? or family shots? i'm not being sarcy... i'd really love to see some.

And yea don't play silly macho games... you can only do that for so long but sooner or later she'll find out who you really are anyway. So what is the point, just to put on an act for a while? stupid.

CRAZYFAIRY- I completeeeeeely agree with your posts!! especially the last one, you made some really good points... especially about the loud mouth girls LOL.

 

[Luckiecharm]

On the other hand, would you date a guy who is afraid to make a phone call, can't find a job, has no friends, lives at home with his parents while wasting day after day without purpose? That's an example of severe lack of confidence, and you would find it severely unattractive wouldn't you?

.

Ok, Quixote, you've just described me in the above quote. Does that mean that I am unloveable? That no-one would date me? I know that I wouldn't want to date someone so judgemental. I think you are severely underestimating people's capacity for love.
Thanks for your explanation, but I am very clear on what self-confidence is. Are you aware of what self-acceptance is? I appreciate that you may find my point of view contrary to yours, but what makes you right and me wrong? Why should I just agree with you? I have the right to express my feelings on this forum, just like everybody else and the truth is that I value people for many other reasons than their levels of self-confidence. Maybe you find that hard to believe, but it's true.

 

[Meow]

This totally reminds me of a Katie Melua song called Shy Boy...

I'm sittin' in the window of a street cafe
Watchin' you walking by each day,
It seems that you always wanna look my way
Hey, you can't deny, boy,
You're such a shy boy.

So good looking you seem to be
But you're too tongue-tied to say hi to me,
You could make it happen so easily
Woah, I'll tell you why boy,
'Cos I'm looking for a shy boy

Most guys advertise
By making eyes and telling lies
If you only knew,
You could make your dreams come true
All you gotta do is ask me to

If this was a quiz on a TV show
And the prize was a guy who would love me so
Whatever they ask, the answer I know
Hey, my reply boy
Is gimme a shy boy.

Most guys advertise
By making eyes and telling lies
If you only knew
You could make your dreams come true
All you gotta do is ask me to

Some guys act a bit too sure
And maybe you're thinkin' that less is more
But Honey, you still gotta knock on my door
Hey, just try boy,
And you could be my boy

I'll tell you why boy
I'm looking for a shy boy,
Just try boy, you're such a shy boy

And look how HOT & CUTE she is!!