creating a reality

[plainsofserenity]

Been reading a little philosophy - and not to bore y'all but it was a argument against -
an Evidentialist's view to never, ever believe anything without evidence - without proof.
The other side to this suggests taking a leap of faith. Where no evidence is apparent, assume a position and act as though it were true - and then look for the evidence to support your position.

What seemed significant to this forum was the example used: when going into a room full of strangers if you demand evidence that some are friendly before you approach them then you may never find out. If on the other hand you act as though they are, they may just prove to be so. In this case you help create the reality you were believing in.
Believe that life is worth living and your belief will help create the fact - William James

It just seemed an interesting thought.

 

[Thelema]

When you change the way you look at things the way you look at things change- Dr Wayne Dyer

Magick is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will- Aleister Crowley

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

I actually think that that is a pretty interesting thought.

I have been starting to think of how social anxiety is about my attempt to process new people/sensations -where I become easily overwhelmed by an inundation of this. And that it is similar to a fear of the unknown.

And, I was just about to write elsewhere, that this need to control a new situation (to make up for my reactivity towards it) is really what the problem is -that it makes an initial sensitivity towards things become hyper tense and anxious. And that basically the solution is to do the opposite. To realise that there is simply nothing to be so careful of or fearful of. And in this way, desensitize my self to new people/sensations.

Your thoughts are interesting because the philosophy of spirituality is that we ALREADY create our own reality. "It will be done as you believe" etc.
As for the need to know -perhaps what there is to know and understand is that there is nothing to actually learn or to know. And I think that it is really based on reaching this confident 'knowing' on an emotional level.

I actually think that, when it comes down to it, there is no difference between these 2 sides that you have presented. That even those "more positive" in their outlook are essentially just the grown versions of the former outlook of questioning and therefore doubting.
....And I think that this is in keeping with the belief that, whilst God is perfect good, that perfect good is in fact a combination of what we previously believe to be bad and good; or darkness and light. And that when we pass through doubt it is always because we are redefining who we are and our sense of what is 'good' and 'bad'.

 

[plainsofserenity]

do realities exist independent of your believe?
(Is it so even if you don't believe it?)

 

[Jack-B]

You exist within your own subjective reality, your own personal world in which no one else experiences. Their are similarities to how things appear though.

Realities exist in dependence of the mind, nothing exists independent of the mind.

So the mind is the architect of your own world, the creator.

It creates reality through your actions, or did you just arrive here in 'the world?' What was it that was here when you arrived in the world? Was your mind seperate from that?

Jack

 

[plainsofserenity]

Are you using "subjective reality" and "personal world" to mean simply "whatever I believe"?

Are you saying "reality is only what you believe" so if you don't believe it then it doesn't exist? - that there is no difference between what exists and what I believe?

I think an answer of "for you if you don't believe it, then for you, it doesn't exist" is too easy an answer and is really not the question.

If I don't believe in a god, that would have to then mean he doesn't exist. Others would strongly disagree - saying he exists whether I believe it or not. I can act as though he doesn't exist but does that erase him from reality? Would he have an existance separate from my believe?

If I insist 'Matilda' is untrustworth, I'm not going to trust her. But as it turned out she was very trustable, has proved it so, and now I believe it. I was wrong.
Question: Wouldn't Matilda have indeed been trustworthy before I believed it?

Just because a child believes there is a Santa Claus, and not in a "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" way - (because that's not how they believe him. They believe he's a jolly fat guy living in the North Pole who flies with reindeer. And they believe this as strongly as I believe there is no god and that Matilda is untrustworth.) - can that possible mean in reality and independent of the believe he exists?

If there is a god that doesn't depend on my belief to exist,
OR, if Matilda is trustworthy regardless of what I think,
OR if the NorthPole is just a frozen wasteland
OR if "indeed my twin brother is alive" even though I believe he isn't
Then there is an independent reality that doesn't have anything to do with what I think or believe.

 

[Jack-B]

Great questions.

"Are you using "subjective reality" and "personal world" to mean simply "whatever I believe"? "

No. Whatever appears to your mind, will be in your world, you dont have to believe it, it merely appears to your mind. Your world and your mind are inseperable. Things will appear to your mind without you having to believe them to exist before they exist.

"Are you saying "reality is only what you believe" so if you don't believe it then it doesn't exist? - that there is no difference between what exists and what I believe? "

When you go to sleep and you dream, the 'waking world' ceases to appear to your mind. When you are dreaming the 'dream world' appears to your mind. Both these worlds exist because they appear to your mind. Its how they exist that is interesting. Where does one go when the other vanishes? You dont have to believe them for them to exist, they will just be there appearing to your mind. How do they exist? What do you believe?

"I think an answer of "for you if you don't believe it, then for you, it doesn't exist" is too easy an answer and is really not the question. "

I agree. Similarily, if things came into existence simply by believing them to then, i could believe i have a million pounds in my bank and it would exist. So how do things come into existence? They appear to the mind. How do they appear to the mind?

"If I don't believe in a god, that would have to then mean he doesn't exist. Others would strongly disagree - saying he exists whether I believe it or not. I can act as though he doesn't exist but does that erase him from reality? Would he have an existance separate from my believe?"

God exists for a mind that he appears to. He appears to others minds, then of course God exists. But how does God ultimately exist to everyone and not just one persons mind? I had a dream last night where i was flying, just because it didnt appear to your mind doesnt mean that it didnt exist, it did exist, it just didnt appear to your mind. It was hidden from your mind. Did i believe it existed? Yes. But HOW did it exist?

"If I insist 'Matilda' is untrustworth, I'm not going to trust her. But as it turned out she was very trustable, has proved it so, and now I believe it. I was wrong.
Question: Wouldn't Matilda have indeed been trustworthy before I believed it? "

No, she wouldnt have been trustworthy before you believed it. Why? Because what appeared to your mind then made you believe that she was definitely 'untrustworthy'. She is neither inherently trustworthy or untrustworthy, she is whatever appears to your mind at that time. Reality is not 'only what you believe' and 'if you dont believe it it doesnt exist'. Because things depend on something causing their existence to arise, they will appear to exist whether you believe them to or not. The terminolgy of exist and belief maybe needs defining.

"Then there is an independent reality that doesn't have anything to do with what I think or believe"

No. Independent means seperate from anything else. Reality is not seperate from the mind, so its entirely dependent on the mind, therefore, there is no independent reality existing anywhere other than the mind.

The questions you could ask next is where is the world that others see? Is that seperate from my mind? Or what causes others to experience things in a different way than me?

You can email me privately if you wish to continue this discussion.

Jack