An observation from an outsider

[marc72]

feedback.

Hey Danflac. Since 15 youve been on your own? how courageous. Hang in there. I hope you pull through with your job situation. Anyway, Biff I see what you mean but it is not easy to just snap out of it . Yes WE as a whole need to take steps and not just "give up". THose who are might be going through depression. Anywa, I read many peoples emails and they are taking steps. One of the biggest step is ACKNOWLEDGING that you have this problem.
Some people are using self help books, some are going to psychairitrist, some are going to therapy, some or using tapes are any other method. Mine is therapy and pscychitrist, formely group therapy.
Try to read other peoples challenges to see what is going on this site. I hope you try or help try taking your brother to a doctor or therapist clinic., but be gentle with him though.
I hope the rest of us reading this please do not take what he said personally cause obviously that is how the real world some people sees us.

 

[emmie]

my sister is my rock and witout her support and encouragement i would not of done the things i have such as go in to town etc if my sister told me to pull myself toghether i would be housebound and probably be trying to take my life!!! you keep mentioning ur sales job were not products off a shelf!!!!!!!!

 

[ColdFury]

Maybe I was a bit harsh, but this is about the billionth time I've heard someone make it sound like our problems are nothing. It pisses me off because they don't understand.

 

[black_mamba]

I think Biff's arrogance has massively overshadowed the points he tried to make, and some were good.

In response to the aggression exhibited by some replies (ok, mine); this sort of opinion does get me worked up. Essentially it’s just a debate, so people are very likely to express strong emotions.

i actually hope people like biff post more often around here though, it would do all of us good to read what "normal" people have to say, whether or not you take their opinion to heart is your own personal choice.

Disagree.

Phrases like 'get up and live, get a life' are very emotive and are likely to upset - certainly if we had the choice not to be affected we wouldn't be human.

Oh and by the way, we are normal.

 

[maggie]

I'm not sure Biff may ever be on this site again, but i had to respond anyway...i don't think you will ever begin to understand the choking feeling social phobics feel...and how extremely difficult and sometimes impossible it is for us to accomplish the things we need to to get anywhere in life, love, career, family, anything...if it was as easy as you say, just get the fuck up and do it, believe me, i would have "gotten the fuck up and done it" a long time ago!!!...and maybe had a decent job, a loving partner, and a half-decent self image....no matter how much i want to do something, and prepare myself for a situation, this phobia chokes me to the point where i can't speak properly, loudly enough, walk into a door i should be walking into, etc....and i am a healthy, intelligent person otherwise...so, cut your brother a break and try to understand what is crippling him instead of judging him and others like us...please

 

[Danfalc]

Oh and by the way, we are normal.

Speak for yourself Black_Mamba! :lol:
*goes back to talking to himslef and speaking to the green goblins which are dancing round his head* :lol:

 

[Biff]

Hey, my ears were burning. Have you guys been talking about me?? I know I told you I wouldn’t come to this site again, but I must admit that some people are mildly amusing. And if you want my honest opinion-I think some of you are salvageable.

Well, let’s get properly introduced. I’m Biff. I’m married with 2 boys. I am a full-time salesman and part-time training facilitator. I have 1 brother and 1 sister. I live and work in the North East United States. I travel a lot-which I hate. I do not have SA or SP-or whatever you call it. Actually, my problem is quite the opposite. I am perceived as arrogant, selfish and basically, a dick head. I am working on trying to change people’s opinion of me-call it maturity. So we each need to do some work in the area of self-help. I am not forum savvy-nor do I surf the net for pleasure-I just don’t have time. All my computer time is spent at work, so this is a break from my usual routine.

I’m not a delicate or sensitive person, so if some things offend, it’s just the way I am.

One thing I have noticed on your forum is that you people have no constructive criticism. You nice each other to death and there is never anything new. You are afraid to upset each other. Have you ever had a conversation with someone who agrees with everything you say? This drives me mad. It’s sometimes nice to talk to someone who can actually form an opinion and communicate his or her feelings. I know this condition makes you sensitive-see I have been reading, but where is this going to get you. “Oh, I’m so glad I’ve found others just like me-it’s comforting. I’ll never have to worry about anyone criticising me again”?? This attitude, my friend, will keep you isolated and a slave to your condition indefinitely. This is your lucky day. Think of my posts as a break from the norm and a way to get things stirred up.

I noticed there is a lot of pent up anger here. That’s good. Anger sometimes gets things done. Oh, by the way, feel free to give me your worst. I mean really let me have it-you know you want to. I love criticism. I absolutely love it! Why? Well, I know this is hard for you to understand, but criticism is power flowing from you to me. You get weaker while I get stronger. A hard concept to grasp, I know.

One last thing, if my posts make you that upset, then don’t read them. I won’t be offended.

 

[Chilling__Echo]

like others have said, your point is good (for us to basically do what we are doing and to DEAL the best way we can) but your sarcasm is disgusting not to mention your belittling us. i don't even see why you bother with your *advice* since that's supposedly what you're doing, but it's not doing us any good. and don't even think for a second that i'm saying this because i'm too *sensitive* to read your posts. if anything i feel sorry for your ignorance and lack of understanding.

 

[Tim001]

Maybe YOU should get some professional help for your "attention seeking" personality disorder...

Ade

I'm not sure what this guy wants. Attention? It almost looks like he wants to help us, but he's got one hell of a way of showing it :evil:

Biff: this is a forum for people with social phobia. A very real and dibilitating condition. We can't come here if we feel we will be criticised. It is a SUPPORT forum. Can't you understand that?

Do you enjoy tormenting us like this?

 

[Meatwad]

This is why I'd hesitate to let someone know about me having this...People are so insensitive and the things they tell us to do, etc. are easier said than done. People don't understand

You don't go to a forum for people with low self esteem and make them feel worse.

 

[Sebastian]

Hey, my ears were burning. Have you guys been talking about me?? I know I told you I wouldn’t come to this site again, but I must admit that some people are mildly amusing. And if you want my honest opinion-I think some of you are salvageable.

Well, let’s get properly introduced. I’m Biff. I’m married with 2 boys. I am a full-time salesman and part-time training facilitator. I have 1 brother and 1 sister. I live and work in the North East United States. I travel a lot-which I hate. I do not have SA or SP-or whatever you call it. Actually, my problem is quite the opposite. I am perceived as arrogant, selfish and basically, a dick head. I am working on trying to change people’s opinion of me-call it maturity. So we each need to do some work in the area of self-help. I am not forum savvy-nor do I surf the net for pleasure-I just don’t have time. All my computer time is spent at work, so this is a break from my usual routine.

I’m not a delicate or sensitive person, so if some things offend, it’s just the way I am.

One thing I have noticed on your forum is that you people have no constructive criticism. You nice each other to death and there is never anything new. You are afraid to upset each other. Have you ever had a conversation with someone who agrees with everything you say? This drives me mad. It’s sometimes nice to talk to someone who can actually form an opinion and communicate his or her feelings. I know this condition makes you sensitive-see I have been reading, but where is this going to get you. “Oh, I’m so glad I’ve found others just like me-it’s comforting. I’ll never have to worry about anyone criticising me again”?? This attitude, my friend, will keep you isolated and a slave to your condition indefinitely. This is your lucky day. Think of my posts as a break from the norm and a way to get things stirred up.

I noticed there is a lot of pent up anger here. That’s good. Anger sometimes gets things done. Oh, by the way, feel free to give me your worst. I mean really let me have it-you know you want to. I love criticism. I absolutely love it! Why? Well, I know this is hard for you to understand, but criticism is power flowing from you to me. You get weaker while I get stronger. A hard concept to grasp, I know.

One last thing, if my posts make you that upset, then don’t read them. I won’t be offended.

Nice to meet you Biff and welcome to our forum. =)


For starters, you are slowly changing your image. As you can see, you're encountering less opposition and more conversation, even from people who initially criticized you.

Constructive criticism is something very useful. You already picked up on the fact that sociophobics do not handle criticism very well. But, as it was stated before me, usually people come here for support. Now, try to think about the saddest and cruelest moment in your life - share it with us if you wish. Think about the loneliness you felt, whether you were betrayed, lost someone, felt frustrated, etc.. Apparently, loneliness is a pretty common condition and people who suffer from social phobia can testify to that. Usually, when you have a problem, you either try to take care of it yourself or, like most people, seek for support in a way or another. Sociophobics cannot do that, as the problem is like a buffer zome between them and the social world, some sort of human even horizon. They are bound to loneliness and to a sensation of loneliness mixed with helplessness as most of them think they are the only ones who suffer this "thing" that they cannot even name. Now, think how glad and excited they feel when they find a name for this demon and when they aknowledge that there are others like them. Suddenly, they feel less alone and less "freaks".

Believe me when I tell you that there's probably no one who knows loneliness's deceving taste more than someone with SA.

Having said that, I agree that we have to act. There is a time for empathy, for healing, but there's also a time for action as well and if you have some time to browse through the different topics presented here, you will see a desperate, almost limping, effort to get better. Most people here are incredibly brave as they face their fear day by day. Think about encountering your worst fear day in, day out and having to battle it to survive. It's not a pretty scene. But, it's ok, we can do this... =)

On another note, I have always been intrigued by people who can sustain heavy criticism and simply go on, doing their own thing. I have seen this in politics and in sports. Even an "average" person would feel distressed if put under a certain amount of criticism, yet there are few (maybe very few) people who are immune to them. This is a gift and, as often it happens, it is missused in order to gain power, to ignore something bad, so on so forth. None the less, I also believe that great leaders have to have this resistance to criticism, be it negative, positive or constructive criticism. Now, my question for you would be: can you explain to us in every little details and as articulately as possible the way you can be insensitive to criticism? It must be something mostly innate, but having your perspective and your reasoning behind it would be very interesting, if not useful.

Sebastian

 

[ignisfatuus]

Nothing groundbreaking here...if the original poster really did find this from his brother's computer then he is a sad individual with little to do.

One thing I have noticed on your forum is that you people have no constructive criticism. You nice each other to death and there is never anything new. You are afraid to upset each other.

I agree with this, however. There are some sympathy whores who need to be told enough is enough.

 

[emmie]

I dont mind readng ur post but why do u keep mentioning ur a salesmen. Do you think ur better than everyone here!! Id rather be known as the shy one than a arrogrant dickhead as u say people call you.
I would like to know the cause or what set off your bro to be like he is?
Can i ask have your parents the same attitude to you?
How come you had to come back to the forum i thought you said you wernt going to bother.

 

[Ensamniak]

Well Biff...

First off I don't have any problem with Biff's statements. That said... I couldn't help but wonder how different Biff's life would be if... (and here comes a book ) His parents gave birth to him when they were 16 years old, then got divorced when he was only 3. His mother and father then used him as collateral to hurt the other by denying visitation, and each parent tried to turn him against the other. His father rarely paid child support, and hadn't even talked to him in 10 years. He grew up on welfare and shopped with food stamps. Attended 7 different schools in his life, had 3 completely different "clicks" of friends through life (blacks, heavy metal white guys, then rednecks) being thrust into a completely different group of friends at the drop of a hat. Was molested by a man when he was 8 years old, then again when he was 12, all 5 of his serious girlfriends in life ended up cheating on him, every single one without fail. His fiancee (who he'd lived with for 5 years) cheated on him too, and left him for no apparent reason, (for another man actually) 3 months after agreeing to marry him, and even had the nerve to introduce him as "my friend" at a work party after 5 years together. (at least That sparked my assertiveness) (dumping him over the telephone!?) Spent 3 years in the 9th grade, (skipped school 66 times in one year, and got purposely expelled the next. Then one year in the 10th grade, then dropped out. So afraid of people, and the public that you once hit yourself in the ankle with a hammer 3 times, and said you fell, to avoid going to school. Been addicted to cigarettes, and marijuana for 19 years. Taken pills, alcohol, cocaine, acid, shrooms, and nearly everything except Meth and Heroin. Bullied all of his life by everyone including by gang members, and had guns pointed at his head. Bullied by teachers, bosses, the police, judges, the government... the whole human system, as a matter of fact. Been called "lazy just like his father, never gonna amount to anything." Been overweight his whole life. And just found out 2 weeks ago what his "disorder" really is, (Social phobia, with avoidant personality disorder) after thinking he was OCD, ADD, schizophrenic etc etc... every disorder in the book, went to the psychiatrist for help, and they told him (basically) his only problem was he was just lazy. After 3 months of Psych help he accomplished nothing and recieved a 2000 dollar bill in the mail from the psychiatrist, which is 1/6th of his yearly "bring home" income, so he can't pay the bill now. (which is supposedly a sliding scale) The government thinks they need 70 dollars a week from a poor man who only grosses 320 a week. lost his job, his car, lived with his mom at age 30 (which even his best friend thinks is funny to bring up in front of large groups of people so they all can laugh. (some best friend) Has one pair of jeans, 3 shirts, one pair of underwear, one pair of socks, no money to even get started with this heaping pile of sh*t. Spent the last three years homebound with agoraphobia, Always had an overwhelming fear of death nearly everyday, attempted suicide... And i'm sure there is plenty more, although I maybe forgot half of the bad experiences in my life. But that is one example of what can cause someone to become socially phobic. And you wonder why we HATE people? And why we always want others to feel sorry for us? They need to pass a law so I can sue every last one of the a**holes who have destroyed my life and made me hate most of human kind. It's everything I can do just to keep from going "postal" one day... That's where all my "Willpower" goes. lol

But despite all of that, I still try. And am currently climbing out of the hole again.

But I agree, it's a fact that I just mope around and expect everyone to feel sorry for me most of the time, but if you ever wonder why, just look upwards at what i've been through, (most humans aren't even worth my time, look what they do) and ask yourself if your life would be different than it is at the moment. (and h*ll maybe all that has happened to you too, I wouldn't know)

But I think your brother has most likely experienced similar things, and 99% of those things he has (most likely) never told you, and maybe never told anyone before. And at least here (at this forum, and on the internet) he can talk about those things with anonimity, to someone who will listen, and understand. And maybe he can eventually sort it all out, and overcome life's struggles.
I've already said too much, sorry if I hijacked your thread.

Good luck to everyone. :wink:

 

[black_mamba]

Wow...this makes for interesting reading.

I was certain Biff would return. I know its difficult staying away knowing you've caused such a ruckus. :wink:

I am not forum savvy-nor do I surf the net for pleasure-I just don’t have time. All my computer time is spent at work, so this is a break from my usual routine.

Now that was a poor excuse if I ever heard one. You're posting here right, you're making coherent remarks (just about) so you can use a forum pretty well.

One thing I have noticed on your forum is that you people have no constructive criticism. You nice each other to death and there is never anything new. You are afraid to upset each other. Have you ever had a conversation with someone who agrees with everything you say? This drives me mad. It’s sometimes nice to talk to someone who can actually form an opinion and communicate his or her feelings.

This annoys me simply because I was fully aware of the nature of this forum before joining and try to be myself as much as possible. I've not sugar-coated anything I've said as I'm sure a lot of other members have. You're right that theres a lot of *group hug* style stuff going on. It makes me cringe, it's not my style but at the same time I do not need to berate it and make people feel uncomfortable for doing it. Let them be, they're not causing you any harm.

This is your lucky day. Think of my posts as a break from the norm and a way to get things stirred up.

It's our lucky day everyone! Get the fake plastic hats and party poppers out! :lol:

I know this is hard for you to understand, but criticism is power flowing from you to me.

Masochist!

I am perceived as arrogant, selfish and basically, a dick head. I am working on trying to change people’s opinion of me-call it maturity

You can't change people's opinon without changing yourself first. Think about it.

And btw, McShy - your comments were spot on. 8)

 

[fallenfeather]

biff

I haven't ready the entire thread as I have work to do but I read the forst page and I have to say that comparing SA to career situations is not the way to go about understanding it. You seem to mention how you handle business situations and rejections in your work. Sa is about life not just work. It affects every aspect of our lives, not just our careers. Don't judge someone before you fully understand them. IF you don't know all the facts about something, don't but in and throw out your rough guesses as to what SA is! Only sa sufferers truly understand what it is and how it affects their lives.

I am successful at my work. I'm a trainee architect for a big company and I also run the computer network at the same time. I also have my own music studio where I write and produce tracks for some extremely well known labels and artists in the UK. But, I have SA and it made it very difficult for me to get to where I am, but I worked my ass off to get this far and I know plenty about business and climbing the career ladder.

I think you shoudl go and annoy some other group of people whom you have no clue about, OR get forget about giving peoplen a hard time and get back to your busy carreer you worked soooooo hard to get into instead of wasting time here!!

 

[emmie]

Re: biff

I haven't ready the entire thread as I have work to do but I read the forst page and I have to say that comparing SA to career situations is not the way to go about understanding it. You seem to mention how you handle business situations and rejections in your work. Sa is about life not just work. It affects every aspect of our lives, not just our careers. Don't judge someone before you fully understand them. IF you don't know all the facts about something, don't but in and throw out your rough guesses as to what SA is! Only sa sufferers truly understand what it is and how it affects their lives.

I am successful at my work. I'm a trainee architect for a big company and I also run the computer network at the same time. I also have my own music studio where I write and produce tracks for some extremely well known labels and artists in the UK. But, I have SA and it made it very difficult for me to get to where I am, but I worked my ass off to get this far and I know plenty about business and climbing the career ladder.

I think you shoudl go and annoy some other group of people whom you have no clue about, OR get forget about giving peoplen a hard time and get back to your busy carreer you worked soooooo hard to get into instead of wasting time here!!

well put! i envy you

 

[fallenfeather]

Re: biff

I haven't ready the entire thread as I have work to do but I read the forst page and I have to say that comparing SA to career situations is not the way to go about understanding it. You seem to mention how you handle business situations and rejections in your work. Sa is about life not just work. It affects every aspect of our lives, not just our careers. Don't judge someone before you fully understand them. IF you don't know all the facts about something, don't but in and throw out your rough guesses as to what SA is! Only sa sufferers truly understand what it is and how it affects their lives.

I am successful at my work. I'm a trainee architect for a big company and I also run the computer network at the same time. I also have my own music studio where I write and produce tracks for some extremely well known labels and artists in the UK. But, I have SA and it made it very difficult for me to get to where I am, but I worked my ass off to get this far and I know plenty about business and climbing the career ladder.

I think you shoudl go and annoy some other group of people whom you have no clue about, OR get forget about giving peoplen a hard time and get back to your busy carreer you worked soooooo hard to get into instead of wasting time here!!

well put! i envy you

Thanks but it was very difficult to get myself this far. I used to be sitting in the house not wanting to go out and avoiding invitations from friends but eventually I got so down I just let go of everything and became a misery guts. I realised one day that I'm only going to get to live this live once and I don't want to waste it. I want to feel happiness and fun and excitement. So I began the long journey of self change to the point of building up a life for mylsef and finding a fantastic girlfriend and a decent job and lots of hobbies, one of which became a part time career.

Today I am 10 times better than I was but my sa STILL puts a difficult twist on my daily life and I still avoid things I don't want to. I can tell you this, the more you socialise the easier it gets over time.

My two most useful tools so far have been 1: building a life I'm proud of, making me feel like I'm not the useless crap person I thought I was. And 2: xanax for occasional use!

 

[fallenfeather]

Re: biff

I haven't ready the entire thread as I have work to do but I read the forst page and I have to say that comparing SA to career situations is not the way to go about understanding it. You seem to mention how you handle business situations and rejections in your work. Sa is about life not just work. It affects every aspect of our lives, not just our careers. Don't judge someone before you fully understand them. IF you don't know all the facts about something, don't but in and throw out your rough guesses as to what SA is! Only sa sufferers truly understand what it is and how it affects their lives.

I am successful at my work. I'm a trainee architect for a big company and I also run the computer network at the same time. I also have my own music studio where I write and produce tracks for some extremely well known labels and artists in the UK. But, I have SA and it made it very difficult for me to get to where I am, but I worked my ass off to get this far and I know plenty about business and climbing the career ladder.

I think you shoudl go and annoy some other group of people whom you have no clue about, OR get forget about giving peoplen a hard time and get back to your busy carreer you worked soooooo hard to get into instead of wasting time here!!

well put! i envy you

Thanks but it was very difficult to get myself this far. I used to be sitting in the house not wanting to go out and avoiding invitations from friends but eventually I got so down I just let go of everything and became a misery guts. I realised one day that I'm only going to get to live this live once and I don't want to waste it. I want to feel happiness and fun and excitement. So I began the long journey of self change to the point of building up a life for mylsef and finding a fantastic girlfriend and a decent job and lots of hobbies, one of which became a part time career.

Today I am 10 times better than I was but my sa STILL puts a difficult twist on my daily life and I still avoid things I don't want to. I can tell you this, the more you socialise the easier it gets over time.

My two most useful tools so far have been 1: building a life I'm proud of, making me feel like I'm not the useless crap person I thought I was. And 2: xanax for occasional use!

 

[Nvenya]

I just think he made a wrong turn and missed the Narcissists forum.