I hope my thought may help someone like it helps me

I'm new here so please be gentle ::

I have social phobia & anxiety and have always been feeling really negative about most things socially that happens.

And then the other month I had a thought come into my head. You see, even though I am not very good at talking about things and showing my emotions (except to people I feel very close and comfortable with) I daydream and I think alot about things.

The thought may look really silly to some on here but the main thing is, it helps me alot. And I hope that by writing it down that if it helps just one person out there to replace a usual negative feeling with a positive feeling (even for just 10 seconds) it will be a good thing.

You know some people believe in reincarnation? My way of looking at things and my way of coping with my social problems is to believe that people who have social phobia or similar problems have not been on the earth before (the people who have had social problems since birth), or may have only been here once or twice before (people whose social problems started halfway through life), so they have no experience of dealing with people and those people who seem to have all the confidence in the world, are very outgoing and like to bully others, they have probably been reincarnated a few to alot of times, so they are used to people more.

It sounds like an in-denial way of looking at things, but it helps me to cope...for now.

That sounds so weird written down, but just thinking about it in my head seems to help me a lot. Please dont laugh at me, it is just a coping mechanism for me. But I wonder if it might help someone else...to stop yourself from feeling that you may be some kind of lazy freak or weirdo or something (as I feel I am myself).

I think what makes this approach work is that it changes your thoughts from "I don't have any social skills" to "I am learning and improving my social skills", which is changing a negative thought to a positive (or at least neutral) one. Instead of thinking "I can't do this" you'll probably think "I don't know how to do this yet". This encourages you to work on your SA in a positive way. It is not denial, it is just a way of changing your thoughts.

Thank you for not laughing at me.

Yes, I think you are probably right.

I do feel that one day my problems will go away. So I just feel I don't have as much experience as others do and that in time, experience will come even if it's just in the tiniest baby steps and things will change

Thinking about things like this could work for or against you... it is positive, in that you think that you will eventually be better, but this makes you think you have a virtually infinite time line on which to do it. This could take away from a sense of urgency or from feeling a need to push yourself to improve in the here and now to make the best of this life.

lurknomore said:

Thinking about things like this could work for or against you... it is positive, in that you think that you will eventually be better, but this makes you think you have a virtually infinite time line on which to do it. This could take away from a sense of urgency or from feeling a need to push yourself to improve in the here and now to make the best of this life.

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Of course, people will always be looking for a reason not to challenge their SA. I still believe that changing negative thoughts to positive ones can help (not cure) your SA even if you do not do anything else to improve.

Qbmaster said:

Of course, people will always be looking for a reason not to challenge their SA. I still believe that changing negative thoughts to positive ones can help (not cure) your SA even if you do not do anything else to improve.

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I agree. Positive thoughts can at least help you to not be so depressed about your situation. And some may even use positive thoughts as a way of accepting their situation and being content with it- then it may not matter if they're actively trying to challenge it.

I see where you are coming from, both of you.

Actually thinking that thought, has made me feel less negative about things and this can only be a good thing, as all my thoughts before that were constantly negative.

So now I have one positive thing to think about, it is making me feel a bit more relaxed about life and this can only have a good result in the end, even if it does take a lifetime to achieve.

I suggested this idea to my boyfriend, whom I thought would think I was a silly weirdo, but he said "Maybe, you never know". I doubt he believes in it, but what he said was some kind of acceptance as though there might be some truth in it. And if just one person in my life, who is always around me, can think that there might be a tiny bit of truth in it, it can make me feel so much better

I wonder what is so positive and desirable about bitchy bullies or ignorant people, no matter how extraverted or "socially skilled" they might be. Do you think they are ahead of evolution, I would think rather the opposite.

Lea said:

I wonder what is so positive and desirable about bitchy bullies or ignorant people, no matter how extraverted or "socially skilled" they might be. Do you think they are ahead of evolution, I would think rather the opposite.

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There is no point in focusing on the people you don't want to be like. Or are you implying that all socially skilled people are like this? Being bitchy, ignorant or a bully has nothing to do with social skills.

Qbmaster said:

There is no point in focusing on the people you don't want to be like. Or are you implying that all socially skilled people are like this? Being bitchy, ignorant or a bully has nothing to do with social skills.

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Maybe, but that doesn't mean they should be ahead in evolution either. Just because they are socially skilled, after all social skills is the major reason for people to become manipulative (and most of them do). I don't think it's much exchaggerated if I say in today's society socially skilled almost equals manipulative in some way. Because the society itself is dishonest so if they weren't as well, they wouldn't fit in.

Also, skills are skills.. just because you have some SKILLS, that doesn't automatically make you better in character. Just as being a plumber doesn't . I'd rather say that NOT having these skills makes you more sensitive and understanding, less egoistic. And having less ego and self importance may be the aim of evolution rather than becoming an aggresive and deceptive animal.

Lea said:

Maybe, but that doesn't mean they should be ahead in evolution either. Just because they are socially skilled, after all social skills is the major reason for people to become manipulative (and most of them do). I don't think it's much exchaggerated if I say in today's society socially skilled almost equals manipulative in some way. Because the society itself is dishonest so if they weren't as well, they wouldn't fit in.

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Social skills is a requirement for being skilled at manipulating people, but I tend to think that most people are not manipulative. Sure, nobody is completely honest all the time but that is actually good because a large part of our reality is subjective. If everyone was honest all the time we would live in a world where most people couldn't agree on the simplest things. But this is not what I call being manipulative. A manipulative person is a person who consciously and repeatedly manipulates other people into following his/her will. This kind of person is very uncommon. Or is your definition of "manipulative" different?

Qbmaster said:

Social skills is a requirement for being skilled at manipulating people, but I tend to think that most people are not manipulative. Sure, nobody is completely honest all the time but that is actually good because a large part of our reality is subjective. If everyone was honest all the time we would live in a world where most people couldn't agree on the simplest things. But this is not what I call being manipulative. A manipulative person is a person who consciously and repeatedly manipulates other people into following his/her will. This kind of person is very uncommon. Or is your definition of "manipulative" different?

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Very uncommon? Hah I wouldn't think so. It needn't be manipulative in explicitly manipulating others into following his/her will, but subtly dishonest/deceptive, saying not what's true but what's beneficial to them, little lies here and there, loads of nice words, smilies, kind of social weasels carving it their way through the society.

To your argument that society couldn't function if people were completely innocent, I don't agree. Because innocent doesn't mean stupid or naive (or narrowminded, rigid in thinking that they couldn't understand or tolerate a bit different point of view as you seem to assume). It rather means mature and strong in character (and it's true that I met people like this, some were extraverted, some introverted so this is not much of an issue, I just wanted to say that social people become more prone to being spoiled by malice in the society). If society was ruled by people like this, who are honest, never cheat, keep their word, we would be light years ahead. There would be no wars, no corruption etc. And if I speak of wars, it's not only someone somewhere doing it, it begins with every single of us!

No, I think it is opposite!! I think I was on the earth before more than any other average people. Our phobias are because we are too intelligent (because we were on the earth so many times before) and are analyzing things too much and understand so much more.

Lea said:

Very uncommon? Hah I wouldn't think so. It needn't be manipulative in explicitly manipulating others into following his/her will, but subtly dishonest/deceptive, saying not what's true but what's beneficial to them, little lies here and there, loads of nice words, smilies, kind of social weasels carving it their way through the society.

To your argument that society couldn't function if people were completely innocent, I don't agree. Because innocent doesn't mean stupid or naive (or narrowminded, rigid in thinking that they couldn't understand or tolerate a bit different point of view as you seem to assume). It rather means mature and strong in character (and it's true that I met people like this, some were extraverted, some introverted so this is not much of an issue, I just wanted to say that social people become more prone to being spoiled by malice in the society). If society was ruled by people like this, who are honest, never cheat, keep their word, we would be light years ahead. There would be no wars, no corruption etc. And if I speak of wars, it's not only someone somewhere doing it, it begins with every single of us!

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Yes, my argument (about society not functioning) was a bit strange and not completely valid. I still prefer a society of not completely honest people to a society where everyone is brutally honest. And of course, in a society where everyone is honest it would be a huge advantage to be able to manipulate people. The leader of such a society would probably be one of the few manipulative people. What I'm trying to say is that people are not as manipulative (in a bad way) as you seem to think, and most people are not bad.

Qbmaster said:

Yes, my argument (about society not functioning) was a bit strange and not completely valid. I still prefer a society of not completely honest people to a society where everyone is brutally honest. And of course, in a society where everyone is honest it would be a huge advantage to be able to manipulate people. The leader of such a society would probably be one of the few manipulative people. What I'm trying to say is that people are not as manipulative (in a bad way) as you seem to think, and most people are not bad.

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When I say "honest", I don't mean brutally honest in the way like you're going to tell someone you don't like his clothes etc., or insist on unimportant details or obsess over the right word meaning to the point of becoming unbearable. With honest I just mean fair, is it so hard to understand. You don't need to analyze it ad absurdum, just use your common sense. And again, we were talking about society where EVERY SINGLE ONE without exception is fair, so why are you talking about this society being prone to manipulation. Manipulation by whom?? The people I was talking about are totally unspoilable (jesus my english ) and incorruptible. They weren't wired to be manipulative or dishonest by nature, and nothig in the world can make them so.

Lea said:

When I say "honest", I don't mean brutally honest in the way like you're going to tell someone you don't like his clothes etc., or insist on unimportant details or obsess over the right word meaning to the point of becoming unbearable. With honest I just mean fair, is it so hard to understand. You don't need to analyze it ad absurdum, just use your common sense. And again, we were talking about society where EVERY SINGLE ONE without exception is fair, so why are you talking about this society being prone to manipulation. Manipulation by whom?? The people I was talking about are totally unspoilable (jesus my english ) and incorruptible. They weren't wired to be manipulative or dishonest by nature, and nothig in the world can make them so.

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I'm just trying to be realistic. I want a perfect world just as much as you do, a world where everyone is honest in a good way. If it was possible to have a world without manipulative people I would be really happy. I just think that it is impossible, and I still like the world the way it is. Let's like people for what they are and not dislike them because they are different from our unreachable perfect human being. Humans are not perfect, we are not machines. We have emotions, we make random choices, we have irrational fears. Social skills help people understand other people in a way that no textbook or set of rules can. They help people communicate with each other. I do not see how social skills are bad in any way.

Qbmaster said:

I'm just trying to be realistic. I want a perfect world just as much as you do, a world where everyone is honest in a good way. If it was possible to have a world without manipulative people I would be really happy. I just think that it is impossible, and I still like the world the way it is. Let's like people for what they are and not dislike them because they are different from our unreachable perfect human being. Humans are not perfect, we are not machines. We have emotions, we make random choices, we have irrational fears. Social skills help people understand other people in a way that no textbook or set of rules can. They help people communicate with each other. I do not see how social skills are bad in any way.

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If I had social skills, I would get drunk and sleep around.. it would make me understand others better I think . Anyways I don't think you will ever get what I was trying to say, it is impossible to change people's mind into not seeing honesty as something stupid, weak and inhuman. Lying and things like that are perceived as cool by the majority of people no matter what they say. Liars and bullies, murderers, corrupted people are probably more human also.

You see I never said I need people to be perfect (or do you think so from my posts?), I rather think I am extremely tolerant and understanding, but what I cannot tolerate is the evil side (you may call it "just weaknesses") in people, dishonesty, lies, cheating and similar ****. And I similary hate when others are tolerating this, or even try to excuse these people, protect them. If you're protecting criminals, you are guilty of crime yourself. You think you are being good and human but you aren't because you make them continue doing so and hurting more and more people. In my opinion, saying that lies, cheating, murders, unfairness nad other "weaknesses" make people more human, is RIDICULOUS. Don't you know that by supporting these "weaknesses", you help to make them spread?

It is sad because it does seem like people use social skills not to communicate and connect with others, but to bolster their position by manipulation and dishonesty. I lack social skills but I'm always looking to try to be open to others and connect in a honest way. I see other people who are socially skilled just playing games with eachother, manipulating and trying to get what they want from others. Social skills does not seem to be prerequisite for open communication.

Maybe, in part, I purposely didn't learn social skills because I see what people do with them and I absolutely hate it. People seem to have accepted the games and the manipulation as human nature. Maybe it is. But its also human nature to look after each other and respect each other and not try to manipulate and belittle others for your own sake.

Lea said:

If I had social skills, I would get drunk and sleep around.. it would make me understand others better I think . Anyways I don't think you will ever get what I was trying to say, it is impossible to change people's mind into not seeing honesty as something stupid, weak and inhuman. Lying and things like that are perceived as cool by the majority of people no matter what they say. Liars and bullies, murderers, corrupted people are probably more human also.

You see I never said I need people to be perfect (or do you think so from my posts?), I rather think I am extremely tolerant and understanding, but what I cannot tolerate is the evil side (you may call it "just weaknesses") in people, dishonesty, lies, cheating and similar ****. And I similary hate when others are tolerating this, or even try to excuse these people, protect them. If you're protecting criminals, you are guilty of crime yourself. You think you are being good and human but you aren't because you make them continue doing so and hurting more and more people. In my opinion, saying that lies, cheating, murders, unfairness nad other "weaknesses" make people more human, is RIDICULOUS. Don't you know that by supporting these "weaknesses", you help to make them spread?

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You did say "The people I was talking about are totally unspoilable ... and incorruptible." I interpreted this as "perfect".
Honesty is not stupid, weak or inhuman. Lying is not cool. I hate anyone who intentionally hurts another human being. Being human does not excuse any kind of bad behaviour, but it explains some of it. Lies, cheating and murders do not make us more human, but they are sometimes a result of being human and therefore "imperfect". Most people seem to have an "evil" side. Almost everyone lies or manipulates sometimes. Do I think this is good? No. And I do not excuse this behaviour. But I try to judge the act and not the person. The fact that everyone lies does not make everyone a liar. And I'm not sure if we have the same definition of social skills. I only define it as "the ability to communicate naturally with other people". Nothing more. Not "conforming to society" or "learning how to lie and manipulate". And that is why I don't see anything bad with social skills.