what's the point???

[spurs]

i just don't see the point to life when all you experience is pain.
all i see is how fucked up this world is. i hate being inside my own mind, but looking at what's going on in the world makes me just as depressed.
and it makes me feel even worse when i realise how lucky i am to live in a socially and economically stable country but i can't make my life worthwhile, and take advantage of the opportunity i have.
it just makes me mad that this world is so full of needless suffering yet i have no motivation to do anything about it. i just can't see the point to life so i don't see the point in helping others anymore, or trying o change my own for the better. i don't beleive in God but if there was such an entity i think his creation of life on earth was a very cruel trick.
anyway i was just wondering weather other SP's still value life even though it is obviously painful to live with SP.

 

[Alexp]

For me, I live for the little things in life. That peaceful walk through the woods or stargazing on beautiful summers night...but most of all what keeps me going is the thought that one day there wont be so much pain..that maybe one day I will wake up in a beautiful peaceful country setting to the sounds of roosters and dogs and I will be at peace with myself and the world...

I see how messed up everything is as well and somedays I realize that that all I have going is a thought in my head.. a thought that maybe tomorrow will be better...That tomorrow will probably never come, but sometimes a simple thought of tomorrow can soften the pain of today...

 

[cLavain]

For me, I live for the little things in life.

.

 

[Rachael]

i wish i had something inspiring to say, but all i can say is that you're not alone in your feelings. as much as i hate to admit it, suicide often seems like the better option, doesnt it? the thing about suicide, though, is its so very selfish. as much as it may not seem like it, you'd be hurting so many people so dearly if you choose to take your life. for the sake of your family and friends, hang in there. things wont always hurt this badly.

 

[Jack-B]

Spurs,

If all you experience is pain and suffering, then my friend you have realised a valuable truth about the nature of your existence.

Because we dont know how to transform our suffering, we become hopeless and depressed, a social impotence and lack of desire to do anything with our time. Tired of being bullied by our own mind and negative habits, what do we do?

We dont realise how valuable suffering is.
We dont see any benefit in suffering.
We dont see the good qualities that can arise from experiencing suffering.

Constantly trying to avoid the unavoidable is an unrealistic way to deal with our pain.

So, we need to learn to accept what we experience and learn to view our suffering as a valuable aid in being a better person for our self and others.

By learning to accept our suffering we become more peaceful, generate a mind of love for others who experience the same, build a strong foundation for a stronger mind which can bear any type of pain, we can let go of our unrealistic ideas about the world.

Most of our suffering comes from not accepting things as they are. We want to have a good day, yet we experience problems all the time. We have unrealistic expectations of people and things and all the while we wish to escape the unpleasant feelings which flood our mind all the time.

We dont need to change the external world to feel better, of course this does help but if we truly wish to be happy we must deal with where we experience it and that comes from the mind.

Painful feelings arise in the mind, anger, jealousy, hatred, all in the mind.
We need to first identify that this is where the real problem exists. We get angry with people only because anger is in our mind. We avoid situations and people because anxiety is painfully dominating our mind, we feel life is worthless because our mind is continuessly flooded by the waves of suffering again and again.

I do not have SP anymore because i learnt to be patient with what is unavoidable, the more you welcome it, the less it affects you. You can do this with your anxiety. For example the next time you notice being anxious you remind your self that its just a painful state of mind that isnt you, you experience it, disbelieve its drug like nonsense, happily accept it smiling to your self because it doesnt last that long. You then go back to being your self till the next wave of anxiety hits, then you do the same until your anxiety is weaker and weaker day by day.

Jack

 

[spurs]

i wish i had something inspiring to say, but all i can say is that you're not alone in your feelings. as much as i hate to admit it, suicide often seems like the better option, doesnt it? the thing about suicide, though, is its so very selfish. as much as it may not seem like it, you'd be hurting so many people so dearly if you choose to take your life. for the sake of your family and friends, hang in there. things wont always hurt this badly.

sorry i probably made my post sound abit dramatic, because that's not what i meant. i would never commit suicide. it's just not something i'm not capable of. i just wish i hadn't been born, because i don't see the point in living a life of suffering. and i'm not even just talking about myself. when you hear stories in the news about all the trauma around the world it just seems unbearable, and i wonder how those pople endure even worse suffering then my own. i guess i'm just having a bit of an existential moment.

 

[spurs]

thanks for your reply Jack B. good to know that it is possible to escape the clutches of SP!
your suggestions are good, but i just don't think my mind is strong enough to do that at the moment. i just lack motivation to change and can't seem to find the willpower to control my mind. that is my main problem i think. i don't have a strong enough will/character.
sometimes i feel like my body is composed of scar tissue and any more knocks will just make it break down and add more scarring.

 

[Alexp]

Hi,

Thanks for the insights Jack-B...you have a strong and fascinating grasp on anxiety and depression. One thing I would like to add though is that in my opinion, its extremely difficult to stop the anxiety when its present and may be ineffective..

Here's a short example. Say for example you are extremely anxious whenever you go to a party. If you convince yourself not to be anxious during the party (unbelievable willpower) you may be more outgoing, but lets say that something doesnt go quite right....what happens then is you will go home and blame yourself and keep beating yourself up....when you beat yourself up you are creating more anxiety for next time...so next time you go to a party, you will be even more anxious and it will take even more willpower to overcome it. Its possible that you could convice yourself to be less anxious and more outgoing and everything goes perfect...next time you naturally feel less anxiety...its only a matter of time though when something will go bad (your own perspective) and it will push you all the way back to the start.

In my opinion, the only way to stop anxiety is to stop the reinforcement...stop that pain you give yourself AFTER the party (many times during the party as well). Stop telling yourself you should have said this or that or done this or that...(or shouldnt have said something stupid) Its actually fairly easy to stop yourself from beating yourself up everytime after a social gathering. Many people just dont realize that its a large cause of the anxiety..you are just setting your mind up to protect itself later on. Stop the reinforcement and the anxiety will be less and less everytime...

 

[lawyerguy]

hmm..

Well. I was born in a prison camp. When I was a baby the crazy leader of our country decided that he needed to revolutionize the country by killing off nearly a million people in death camps. My mom and dad and my family were rounded up and put into prison camps where unspeakable acts of cruelty and torture occurred.

then through some twist of fate we came to the states and currently live in one of the richest areas in the richest country on earth. So my family has been through the worst that life has to offer and the best.

So I've always tried not to take things for granted. I, better than anyone, should know how lucky I am to not be living in horrible poverty/pain/torture that so many people around the world feel. But, for some reason I still complain and sometimes think my life sucks. I don't know ..I just think its human to not be satisified with what you have.

I don't know

 

[hans1]

You're here for one reason only.. well actually the word "reason" is deceptive.. it's not a reason as in that there is a point to it, it's a reason as in that there is a causal effect that leads to it.. and that reason is that you've stemmed from a continuus line of succesful reproduction ever since life originated on planet earth.

So whether you suffer immensely or live a happy life, it matters not, what matters is if you reproduce further or not. If you do, then your particular set of genes will carry on. If you don't, then not.

Life in a nutshell.

 

[spurs]

You're here for one reason only.. well actually the word "reason" is deceptive.. it's not a reason as in that there is a point to it, it's a reason as in that there is a causal effect that leads to it.. and that reason is that you've stemmed from a continuus line of succesful reproduction ever since life originated on planet earth.

So whether you suffer immensely or live a happy life, it matters not, what matters is if you reproduce further or not. If you do, then your particular set of genes will carry on. If you don't, then not.

Life in a nutshell.

yes i understand evolutionary theory but that explains the how not the why. it's just i don't understand the point of living purely to survive, to satisfy biological needs in order to fruther the species. i think there has to be more than living to procreate....according to this theory, people with SP weren't meant to survive, because we can't "adapt" to our environment as well as others can. from an evolutionary perspective we have "weaker" genetic makeup so it's no advancement for the species if these genes are passed on. we were meant to die out.
natural selection can't explain everything

 

[Alexp]

I'm not sure about SP's being the 'weaker' evolutionary path. By nature we are more cautious, alert and weary. We are more likely to survive because we are so cautious and alert.

Every species has a certain % of the population that are born completely insensitive without a care in the world...they serve the purpose of strength and guts and surivival of the species by taking what the need without a second thought. But then theres another % of the population that is sensitive, overly carying and alert (most SP's) - these serve an important evolutionary purpose as well though. We are suppose to keep the rest of the population in check...we are suppose to counter the insensitve bastards as they go about their reckless deeds. We are suppose to protect the species by way of caution and alertness.

Theres a reason why we still exist after such a long evolutionary process...its because we do serve a purpose or nature/evolution probably would have got rid of us by now...although that thought doesnt make it any easier...its alot easier to be born insensitive..

 

[thequietone]

I know what you mean about the world. There are so many things that can make you depressed...Ever read Catcher in the Rye? Holden Caufield, the main character, talks about the world making him depressed. For those of us who are sensitive to our environments, it can cause a great toll on our hearts.

For me, I live for the little things in life. That peaceful walk through the woods or stargazing on beautiful summers night...but most of all what keeps me going is the thought that one day there wont be so much pain..that maybe one day I will wake up in a beautiful peaceful country setting to the sounds of roosters and dogs and I will be at peace with myself and the world...

I just wanted to say that that paragraph is beautiful and it's the same little thoughts that keep me going as well. Even in my deepest despair there is hope. If there wasn't, I honestly don't think I'd still be alive.

 

[Jack-B]

Alexp:

"One thing I would like to add though is that in my opinion, its extremely difficult to stop the anxiety when its present and may be ineffective.. "

Jack:

When anxiety is present in your mind, it can be difficult in its later stages to stop. I always recommend identifying anxiety as soon as it arises. It is much easier to prevent our self coming under its drug like influence in the outset rather than letting it snow ball out of control in its later stages, when it is strong in power. The stronger in power it becomes the more we believe it, the more destructive it is and the more we suffer.

Alexp:

"If you convince yourself not to be anxious during the party (unbelievable willpower) you may be more outgoing, but lets say that something doesnt go quite right....what happens then is you will go home and blame yourself and keep beating yourself up....when you beat yourself up you are creating more anxiety for next time...so next time you go to a party, you will be even more anxious and it will take even more willpower to overcome it"

Jack:

This indicates a non-acceptance of anxiety, which actually causes more anxiety which i am pleased you have so rightly identified. Anxiety is a state of mind and will arise during situations such as this and we must work within our capacity. We cannot pretend to our self that its not there. The way to stop this from happening is to say to our self, 'anxiety will appear to my mind and when it arises, instead of pretending it isnt there, i will acknowledge its presence but not identify with it as my self.

We can then disbelieve it without pretending its not there. For example, we can go to a party and accept we will be anxious but we can disbelieve this appearance of anxiety as 'our self' and so happily watch our anxiety without getting involved with it or without going back home and anyalising our self.

Negative self evaluation happens before, during and after such events and only happens because we idientify anxiety as 'our self'. When we stop identifying anxiety as our self in the way i have described there is then no reason to try and supress anxiety, we can watch it without getting involved, it then loses all its power, it ceases to become habitual.

Jack

 

[spurs]

I'm not sure about SP's being the 'weaker' evolutionary path. By nature we are more cautious, alert and weary. We are more likely to survive because we are so cautious and alert.

Every species has a certain % of the population that are born completely insensitive without a care in the world...they serve the purpose of strength and guts and surivival of the species by taking what the need without a second thought. But then theres another % of the population that is sensitive, overly carying and alert (most SP's) - these serve an important evolutionary purpose as well though. We are suppose to keep the rest of the population in check...we are suppose to counter the insensitve bastards as they go about their reckless deeds. We are suppose to protect the species by way of caution and alertness.

Theres a reason why we still exist after such a long evolutionary process...its because we do serve a purpose or nature/evolution probably would have got rid of us by now...although that thought doesnt make it any easier...its alot easier to be born insensitive..

ok we serve a purpose as a counterpoint to the strong aggressive types, but in terms of furthering the species SP’s are less likely to mate or have a multitude of partners, and produce as much offspring as a socially confident person. If furthering your genes is the lifeforce then if we can't further our genes, we are weaker.

 

[Alexp]

Thanks again for the very intelligent response Jack

My work with anxiety seems to show that anxiety does exactly what your mind wants it to do. Your mind creates a heightened state of awareness in order to protect you from whatever is is that you perceive that can cause you emotional pain. Its a primal mechanism for adaptation based on how you perceive the world around you.

When your mind perceives possible emotional pain, the only thing it knows how to do is to make you wary and careful (a.k.a anxiety)...if you continue to feel emotional pain after social events, then the anxiety will continue to increase in order to try to protect you better.

The problem with anxiety isnt so much anxiety itself, but the underlying reinforcers and emotional pain that create the anxiety...and the reason we feel so much emotional pain is because our perceptions and expectations are unrealistic.

So in other words, when our expectations are incredibly high (like we cant make a single social mistake) our minds create anxiety in order to try to meet our minds desire...Its virtually impossible to not make a mistake, but our minds dont know that..It simply tries to meet your minds expectation by creating more and more anxiety all the time in an effort to stop ANY mistake. Obviously, many times it can do more damage then good, but creating anxiety is a logical mechanism in your brain.

Think about it this way logically (for anyone on the board) - If you could some how make it so you would never look stupid around others..or never say something dumb...what would be the easiest way to do that? The answer is - you would create a hightened state of awareness..you would be able to see everything going on around you so that the chance of a mistake would be less likely...or in other words you would create anxiety in your brain...thats why its imperative that unrealistic perceptions and expectaions need to be addressed in order to curb anxiety.

Once we can lower our expectationa and allow for mistakes for example..we wont feel so much pain and in turn will create less and less anxiety (because there would be less need to protect yourself now...mistakes are okay)

 

[hans1]

yes i understand evolutionary theory but that explains the how not the why.

If you truly understand evolutionary theory, then you will see that there is no 'why'. There's only a series of events, not a purpose.

it's just i don't understand the point of living purely to survive, to satisfy biological needs in order to fruther the species.

The point is not to further the species at all. There is no point.

we were meant to die out.

Again, you aren't "meant" for anything. If your set of genes dies out, then that is that.

I'm not sure about SP's being the 'weaker' evolutionary path. By nature we are more cautious, alert and weary. We are more likely to survive because we are so cautious and alert.

Every species has a certain % of the population that are born completely insensitive without a care in the world...they serve the purpose of strength and guts and surivival of the species by taking what the need without a second thought. But then theres another % of the population that is sensitive, overly carying and alert (most SP's) - these serve an important evolutionary purpose as well though. We are suppose to keep the rest of the population in check...we are suppose to counter the insensitve bastards as they go about their reckless deeds. We are suppose to protect the species by way of caution and alertness.

Theres a reason why we still exist after such a long evolutionary process...its because we do serve a purpose or nature/evolution probably would have got rid of us by now...although that thought doesnt make it any easier...its alot easier to be born insensitive..

I'm sorry but that's just nonsense. Why do people have this tendency to insist that there is some good in bad, or that there is some purpose to everything?

Oh and btw, there is no % of the world born completely insensitive. Every person has sensitivities, because every person has emotions. Those that don't won't survive very long.. they're totally incapable of making decisions, for one.

 

[Alexp]

last I heard the purpose was survival - and thats all we are saying..nothing else implied.

I love to have an intelligent argument with anyone, but we can argue syntax all day long without getting anywhere. You know just as well as everyone else what I mean by completely insensitive - if not I recommend going back to highschool :wink: Its not a black and white thing and I think most people would agree that there are very large differences of sensitivity betwen people.

 

[spurs]

yes i understand evolutionary theory but that explains the how not the why.

If you truly understand evolutionary theory, then you will see that there is no 'why'. There's only a series of events, not a purpose.

it's just i don't understand the point of living purely to survive, to satisfy biological needs in order to fruther the species.

The point is not to further the species at all. There is no point.

we were meant to die out.

Again, you aren't "meant" for anything. If your set of genes dies out, then that is that.

no matter how devoutly you believe in evolution, this does not discount that there MAY BE a greater meaning to life. even Darwin made no pretensions about his theory entirely explaining life on earth. Natural selection explains the physical aspects of life, nothing more.

 

[hans1]

last I heard the purpose was survival - and thats all we are saying..nothing else implied.

Survival yes, and reproduction.

I love to have an intelligent argument with anyone, but we can argue syntax all day long without getting anywhere. You know just as well as everyone else what I mean by completely insensitive - if not I recommend going back to highschool :wink: Its not a black and white thing and I think most people would agree that there are very large differences of sensitivity betwen people.

It is not about syntax. You literally said SP are here to counter-balance people of lesser sensitivities. That's just hogwash. It's because of genetic variation. There exists a theoretically "optimum" sensitivity, and all people have a variation of this. Some more, some less. It's like height. Some are bigger, some are smaller.

Fact is, the cold, hard reality that is implied by evolutionary theory is just too much for most people to handle, so they reject it, or atleast part of it.

Or they seek for a deeper motivation where there is none.

no matter how devoutly you believe in evolution, this does not discount that there MAY BE a greater meaning to life. even Darwin made no pretensions about his theory entirely explaining life on earth. Natural selection explains the physical aspects of life, nothing more.

"Even Darwin" lol.. Darwin was already a heretic in his time, ofcourse he didn't go 100% against the reigning dogma. And sure, there might be something higher - a power or being - and I can't prove that there isn't. But if there is something, it has no effect at all on the observable universe.. so it might as well not be there.