This is what I believe SA is.

[charlieHungerford]

The reason I write this is because I believe understanding what exactly SA is about holds the answers to beating SA.

I believe for myself (maybe others can relate, maybe you won't) is that I have developed such negative beliefs in myself and in my ability in relation to the feared person/situation that I just fear the consequences of putting myself into the situation or around the feared person.

I believe that the fear of being judged negatively is simply a bi-product of negative beliefs of myself and of the people I am anxious around, rather than the actual fear of being judged negatively.

I like to demonstrate by giving examples not socially related.

i.e. When learning to drive, when you first go to a busy roundabout for the first several times, I think most people are anxious and fearful. The reason for the fear is because of no confidence in your ability to succeed and perform. The fear disappears when you believe in yourself, believe you can cope and succeed, believe you are good enough.
When you believe you are good enough the fear of what can go wrong which may happen disappears.

I also believe that sportsmen and women also perform at their best when they have the most belief in their ability. A golfer who keeps sinking putts from 10 metres will have such belief in their ability to make the next putt that they usually succeed, whereas a golfer who simply cannot sink a putt for toffee will almost certainly fail because they have no confidence in their ability to succeed. To succeed in a situation comes from having confidence and belief in yourself that you will succeed. If you don't have that, you will fail.

So I believe that beliefs is what holds the key to overcoming SA.

i.e. I am most anxious around women, but is it any wonder when I have such strong negative beliefs when it comes to women, such as no woman could ever be interested in me, I am not good enough looking for women to ever see me as someone desirable, that women are very looks orientated when it comes to men they are interested in, I have no belief I am confident enough for women to think I am good enough, I feel so inferior to women - believe I am just not good enough in comparison, I feel women can only judge me one way - negatively, I have no confidence in speaking when anxious and from all of the above I do fear women and interacting with women (unless I know them well and feel comfortable and confident around them to be myself) because I simply don't believe I can do anything but fail and I fear that. All these beliefs have been developed over time and they all need addressing and changing into a positive mindset in order to have confidence around women.

The hard bit now is changing deep rooted negative beliefs into believable positive beliefs that I am good enough.

That is my take on overcoming SA.

 

[plainsofserenity]

I believe that the fear of being judged negatively is simply a bi-product of negative beliefs of myself and of the people I am anxious around, rather than the actual fear of being judged negatively.

So I believe that beliefs is what holds the key to overcoming SA.

The hard bit now is changing deep rooted negative beliefs into believable positive beliefs that I am good enough.

That is my take on overcoming SA.

And in CBT-speak, those "deep rooted negative beliefs" are called 'core beliefs' and the therapy sets out to do exactly what you state above: changing deep rooted negative beliefs into believable positive beliefs that I am good enough.

 

[charlieHungerford]

Yeah that doesn't surprise me. I have never done CBT, every time I have seen it mentioned, it is made to look so complicated which I guess is why others never seem to look into starting it.

Have you done CBT? If so, can you briefly describe how it aims to change beliefs from negative to positive?

I am thinking I need to analyse negative beliefs and look at why they are wrong and to realise they are wrong consciously, and then think of a positive way to look at these. BUT, how do you make that actually sink in so your automatically believe it? Deep rooted negative beliefs are still brought up subconsciously by the mind even if you consciously don't believe it, simply because they have been developed over such a long period. How do these subconscious beliefs dissolve and fade away? I guess it must take a lot of time and keep working on looking into beliefs???

 

[plainsofserenity]

I gave somewhat of an explanation here http://www.socialphobiaworld.com/postt10542.html.

How do these subconscious beliefs dissolve and fade away? I guess it must take a lot of time and keep working on looking into beliefs???

Over time with the build up of evidence written in your 'thought records' the positive counter argument to your negative feeling comes to mind quicker and quicker - until it is there automatically.
Sort of like believing "I'm worthless". But in restrospect you remember that one time you weren't. So everytime you think "I'm worthless" it get replaced with "Okay not always, just most of the time." Over time you build an impressive convincing list of times you weren't useless and it becomes more and more compelling that the idea of being worthless is just wrong - because "look at all the evidence I have that shows I'm not".

The same process works for "I'm inadaquate", "I'm unloveable", "I would be embarrassed and just die"

Couple this with some 'Exposure' baby-stepping and you DO get to move forward.

Does it take time? Ah..yeah. But are you busy at the moment.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hey Charlie,

I think what you are describing is past beliefs and experiences effecting present and future ones.

Yet, I look at this is terms of that this is all tied-into what I see as the central part of social anxiety -and this 'central part' is that people with social anxiety are hyper-sensitive and easily effected (impressionable-?) by emotions and outside stimulus.

This being easily effected, or attached to people, experiences, emotions -is why we have strong unconcious beliefs and fears and associations.

I think that changing beliefs and attitudes to specific feared situations or people, is worthwhile ...however, I think that this attaching to 'something' always (a certain feared situation for example) is a thought to change in it self.

....Being: why do we conjure up such phobias?

It is fine to address them one by one, but I feel that there is a fundamental problem in the fact that we feel compelled to have fears about such mundande -and often for me- minor everyday aspects of interaction with others.

I notice that the concepts behind meditation, for example, are all about letting go of thoughts. The practise is largely about developing the skill to simply detach off of the thoughts circling within one's mind. ...This skill -is is called 'mindfulness' - is something that I believe phobic people would especially benefit from developing.

I even think that there are 2 different aspects to meditation (or is it just 2 different basic aspects of the mind). One is mindfulness, which is all about the ability to 'filter' through what is important as a focus from what is unimportant or otherwise harmful to focus on; the second (with a name I can't recall) has to do with a person's ability to simply focus on anything.
Almost like, the first is perspective and the second is strength of focus or concentration.

...One way of looking at phobias, is that there is a great deal of focus (constant obsessive worrying in fact) on one particular feared thing -and notice how this one thing takes over and everything else is at least a second to it.

I also notice that I perform well when I am able to take my focus off what I do not wish to happen (or off of what I fear) and instead of making the feared thing bigger, if I make it smaller -I am able to actually control it.

There is more that I could say about this idea -since it is a big aspect of having an obsessive fear (phobia).
Anyhow I must go now.

 

[plainsofserenity]

Of course CBT doesn't deal with one emotion at a time. That would be a little ludicrous. You feel inferior, inadaquate, lonely, afraid, anxious...all at the same time. But CBT help to identify exactly what you are feeling. (e.g."I alway thought when this happened I was feeling angry but, though there is anger, most of it is that I feel threatened") Identifying how you feel and to what extent is part of the therapy.

It also helps identify the 'automatic thought' - that first thought that triggers the emotion - and it's sometimes hard to identify until you see a pattern developing within the 'thought records' you've been keeping. (eg "Getting up in from of the class I get thought of embarrassing myself and everyone laughing at me but I hadn't realize that one of the first things I think of almost as an impression instead of a thought is my mother telling me I'm too stupid to suceed.)

Ideally, once identified, the automatic thought can be traced to their past origins. Often when the orginal stimilus or stimuli (because more often than not there will be a series of situation that help create this irrational fear) is realized, the whole package is easier to manage.

The CBT-client is now able to say "Not only do I now understand that I react this way because I'm anticipating the same negative events that have happened year ago under what was really different (albeit similar) situations, but I am armed with all this evidence that convinces me that the negative response is false."

This is all talked about, analysed, thought through, recorded, repeated - 2 steps forward 1 step back - until the above became the automatic thought.

(of course, the details and the nuances and how it's implemented to the individual client with individual difficulties isn't going to fit in a forum post - but, in a nutshell...)

 

[charlieHungerford]

plainsofserenity - thanks for your posts they were really interesting, I liked reading the post you wrote which you gave a link to as well.

I just wonder why so few people seem to be reluctant to start CBT when it is reckoned to be the answer for beating SA? Is CBT just made to look too long winded do you think? I would love to read a CBT guide for dummies with an easy step by step of what you have to do.

I totally agree with CBT's approach, targeting automatic thoughts and trying to make changes in order to change the actual outcome, it does sound perfect and correct. But is it the correct way and most effective way?

I mean I have mentioned I have no confidence around women, I have no belief in myself around women - I just think women overlook me because I am not good looking enough and I don't have the confidence to impress women. But I don't have the confidence to be myself around women because I feel inadequate and inferior to women, I believe when I am interacting with a woman she will be looking at me in a negative way. All of these negatives have developed from bad experiences, observing others, negative self image that has developed from negative experiences, believing those negative experiences and negative feedback, etc, etc. Now the solution for me to have confidence around women is amongst that - I need to simply BELIEVE I AM GOOD ENOUGH, because what are these beliefs based on? I have beliefs that I am not good looking enough, yet when I used to get the piss taken out of me for not looking good enough was when my hair was crap, I had spots, I was so skinny, I wore crap clothes, etc. These days my hair is styled, I have no spots, I am no longer skinny like I was (I am very happy with my weight), I am very smart and wear nice clothes, I think I have a good personality (with the exception of lacking in confidence and belief - something I desperately want). I look around at other men at work and very very few men are 'good looking' physically. I see so many men with flaws, we all have them as we are all only human, but why do I believe others with flaws are fine and good enough but I don't for myself? Therefore these beliefs are just really unfair. But on the other hand, I have this friend at work who is good looking, women fancy him loads purely for how he looks. He has some women in the office say out loud 'Eeh you are gorgeous, you are the only good looking man in the office'. He gets women at work emailing him asking him out even though they have never spoken to him. He has been with married women at work too. Women just throw themselves at him. Seeing this day in day out over recent years has made me so sure that women are so shallow and looks orientated as he is nothing special as a person. Whilst, I get absolutely no attention from women. Now I know I make no effort chatting and meeting new women and have no confidence around women, so shouldn't expect anything back, but if I believed I was good enough and had the confidence I would.

So my beliefs are based on events that have happened and seeing what women seem to look for in a man. Or am I seeing a distorted picture - of only what shallow women look for? I am clearly not being fair on myself judging myself so negatively and that I am not even alike others who have clear flaws in their appearance.

I need to see this differently obviously in order for me to have belief, I should look from the other end of the scale, that the average man who can meet the average woman is just average. Average means positives and negatives, which is me and that I am not that same person as a teenager who got called so many names for being skinny, for looking crap back then. You don't have to be perfect looking to meet someone you like. I am just like all the other men I see who seem average and seem to meet women. I need to stop feeling inferior like that.
And also not to be disheartened seeing that women throw themselves at men purely on looks alone, because there are shallow men and women - that only can be interested in someone because of looks, but do I want to meet someone who is looks orientated rather than personality orientated like myself? No! I hate superficial, shallow, looks orientated people, they annoy me.
Working from that and then analysing the beliefs I have from that angle is a great place to start changing beliefs and seeing how wrong things are. I think it does take looking at things from a different angle, simple as that.
Is that the same as CBT?

Littlemissmuffet - really interesting post, sorry I can't respond to it now, but am going to watch a football game now, will reply later in the day.

Thanks for the replies, really interesting stuff.

 

[plainsofserenity]

plainsofserenity - thanks for your postsI would love to read a CBT guide for dummies with an easy step by step of what you have to do. .

Don't laugh - the book is out there.

Now I also believe that it would very difficult to do this yourself without being guided by a therapist. I may have been extremely lucky to have empathetic, professional, caring therapist.

I also think that looks - physical attractiveness - is overated. (Though it certainly can't hurt). Look at the posted pictures here - there's a lot of very good looking people who are socially anxious - and - we've all see physically less attractive people with mates, lovers, spouces and families and wondered how is it possible. The answer? *shrug* but it's certainly not just looks. To think "If only I looked different then everything would work out" is another irrational thought. Because to be blunt there are ugly people out there who 'do' very well and have sky-high confident.

 

[Apollos]

i.e. I am most anxious around women, but is it any wonder when I have such strong negative beliefs when it comes to women, such as no woman could ever be interested in me, I am not good enough looking for women to ever see me as someone desirable, that women are very looks orientated when it comes to men they are interested in, I have no belief I am confident enough for women to think I am good enough, I feel so inferior to women - believe I am just not good enough in comparison, I feel women can only judge me one way - negatively, I have no confidence in speaking when anxious and from all of the above I do fear women and interacting with women (unless I know them well and feel comfortable and confident around them to be myself) because I simply don't believe I can do anything but fail and I fear that. All these beliefs have been developed over time and they all need addressing and changing into a positive mindset in order to have confidence around women.

The hard bit now is changing deep rooted negative beliefs into believable positive beliefs that I am good enough.

That is my take on overcoming SA.

Hi charlie. I found a small book (20 pages) yesterday by a guy called Sam Fryman called "Afraid of Women". I read it and he really did do a good job of putting that kind of fear into perspective. Its a very interesting read and I just uploaded it to YouSendIt.com especially for you!

If you want it or anyone else does it can be downloaded at the link below.

http://download.yousendit.com/C656C79043D61F9B

It will be available to download for 7 days so if anyone else wants it after that time PM me.

Regards,

Apollos.

 

[charlieHungerford]

Wow thanks for the two links Apollos and Plains. That is so cool, I have looked on amazon and have bought that book now Plains, that will be a good read. Although I have read elsewhere that you have to do CBT with a therapist, which really doesn't interest me, but I can understand that you need someone to push you and reason with you. I will try do it by myself.

And Apollos - thanks for that link, that is so cool, I will love reading that, that is really nice of you to send the link. I think that will be really interesting and will learn a lot about my beliefs being wrong.

I know that I have a long way to go, like a lot of us here with SA, but we must feel encourgaed that the answers are there, that we just need to change the way we see things, we need to train our minds to think differently - in a positive more fair way. It can be overcome! I mean when you have a bad hair day or a big spot on your face you feel automatically more negative about yourself, feel self conscious, you don't want people to see you, you think people will judge you negatively, you feel worse about yourself - that alone shows that a negative belief drains confidence and makes you anxious, whilst when you have a cool haircut or wear something you think makes you look really smart and cool - you feel much better about yourself, the positive belief brings about increased confidence. So our deep rooted negatives that we have just need tinkering with to turn into more positives in order for us to have more confidence, self belief, higher opinion of yourself, and the anxiety will fade.

Fingers crossed for 2007 that SA will be conquered!

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Plainsofserenity,

First of all, CBT has been around since the concept of changing perception has been around - in fact it is based on the same ideas as spirituality.

My psychiatrist told me that 'You make my job easy for me', on account of that as far as identifying and recontextualising thoughts, I do a good job.

The problem that I personally have with CBT -ie: with changing my perception- is that I find addressing specific thoughts about every particular fear, to be both tediously impractical as well as that my intution tells me that all this is really doing for me is addressing the symtoms of my problems -but not the actual underlying cause.

In other words -what i was doing above was in fact a form of CBT it self. You mentioned 'root causes', and my ideas are that my need to control situations it self is such a 'root cause'. ...In other words: I am thinking that the forces that conjure up my anxieties are based on very basic attitudes and thinking.

Because these anxiety-provoking root thoughts are so basic, I believe that they have gone underneath the radar of my awareness for so long. That the thoughts that go into creating anxiety problems for me, are ones that have been so natural to me that I am barely aware of them being negative or of that I don't need to think and be such a way.

As to my understanding of why and how something like my need to control my anxiety is in actual fact a part of anxiety ...this is because I have been finding how subtle the thoughts causing my tension and anxiety are. That before I go into a situation that I have felt anxious in before, that I go in primed, telling my self to watch what I do and making the situation a big test.

And basically, what I believe is that my anxiety began as a result of a high sensitivity (and arousal) towards outside stimulus, people or anyhting new that challenged me, and that being easily overwhelmed because of my sensitivity and attention to every little stimulus, that then this quickly fell into becoming overwhelmed and the first part of anxiety began.
To "cure" this, what I believe I have done, is to focus even more on my performance, on the aspects of situations or the situations that I fear, and that I basically stress my self more in order to somehow control and avoid becoming stressed.

Or, to put it really simply: I believe that my problem is in my inability to let go and to detach off of what I believe to threaten my peace of mind and stability. And that this realisation can come easily if I also realise that there is nothing to fear, and that the fear of fear (that psychiatrists call anxiety disorders) is what creates the problem. ...That it is a vicious cirlce and one that involves subtle thoughts -and that intuition may in fact be a better way (at least for me) of realising this. And noticing that my fear of having anxiety is really just an exagerrated blown-up version of the original error in thought. And that acknowledgement that fear begets fear is to see more clearly that the thing for me to do is to simply learn how to let go, annalyse less (certainly now that I am in a vicious circle of thinking) and to meditate and especially learn and watch that I let go.
...Even the attitude of letting go is in keeping with the belief that there simply is nothing to fear and that, step by step, I can deal with any new stimulus if I am calm and deal with it moment by moment, whilst such a thing would normally overwhelm me.

And again: even seeing that I began tense, and made my self more tense in an actual effort to 'correct' having become tense initially -noticing this pattern can help me understand that what I need to do is to let go, since I can realise that what I fear does not exist, but that I have been creating it because of a strong natural tendency to approach new situations in a particular way (ie: being attentive and sensitive to little things, and basically being very aware and attuned to sensations).

Anyhow, that is the basic logic of my idea that 'letting go' and watching that I make an effort to do this instead of the opposite. And, I also think that this is the 'core thought' or 'root thought' that generates all my specific fears; and that this hypersensitive, hypervigilant attention to detail and sensations is what brings-about my lower tolerance and emotional 'stamina' towards new people and situations; that 'wrong perceptions' , that 'I am not good enough' etc are secondary to this more basic underlying approach ('root thought').

 

[plainsofserenity]

Or, to put it really simply:

Holy crap Muffet, I have a hard time wrapping my poor little brain around your simple explanation.
All I'm saying is, done right CBT helps the client recognize what emotions he feels and why he is feeling them.
It aslo shows why the negative thoughts are irrational and how to replace them with a more positive balanced belief.
Done right, it works a lot better if the client is also looking at the root of the negative feeling and not just how it manifests itself now.
Done right, it would also explore self-esteem issues.

If you find the process tedious... Well, what can I say?

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Plainsofserenity....

There's nothing so complicated in my explanation.

What I was saying was that CBT is no different from changing perception -which has been around forever.

You seem to think that CBT is something new that a person could only do by being taught by someone or through the help of a 'professional'. In fact, my psychiatrist seems to think that I already do well at CBT on my own -and no wonder, because all it is is common sense examining and recontextualising of 'problem' thoughts, that with enough application and care, anyone could do.

The only difference is that there is a distinction between looking to change every little aspect of where a person is anxious from looking at what perhaps is the cause on a more basic level. ...and you yourself stated that looking at every single thought would be 'ridiculous' but that getting to the 'root thought' is the real aim. ....Well, call it CBT, call it whatever you wish, I was describing what in fact I believe this root thought or attitude to be.

Examining each and every thought is, in my opinion, just a bandaid solution and doesn't go to the core -and that looking at anxiety in a simpler and broader way, would.

...yet, if for some, this first step of looking at each and every thought is necessary in order to later figure out and arrive at a simpler answer about what causes anxiety -then, that is fine.

You find my view complicated and yours simple enough -well, sorry, but this is what I think of the approach of looking at every specific thought and reaction. ...it is tedious because I've found something that I think is better.

I think that I may have already found the core attitude (or thought) that is behind anxiety and that examinining every single situation or thought that I have is not only no-longer useful, but even a bit ineffective because it doesn't go straight to the problem.

...so, yes, of course I find CBT -or the recontexutalising of thoughts- done for every situation and specific fear -is a tedious exercise.

It only scratches the surface and I feel it is important to look deeper than this. -This is one of my main points.

 

[plainsofserenity]

Good enough. You're the winner.
Charlie asked me to explain it. I gave him an explanation as I saw it.
I've no desire to debate it's nuances with you.

You can reply to this if you like. I'm not going to respond back.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

You advocate changing perception -which, by the way, is all that CBT is- but then when the actual substance of this is brought-up, not only do you not recognise it (and perceive some distinction between this and "CBT" ,as if the two are any different) but seem not particularly interested in exploring perception change -other than when such a thing is done with 'professional' guidance.

That's ok, by the way, if you feel that this is necessary now.

Only, understand that to me CBT is nothing new. Besides which, I have little faith (gathered from experience) that psychiatrists -and so called professionals -necessarily are so well equipped at understanding what is needed. ....along with the fact that the bulk of the thinking needs to be done by my self one way or another ...this is why I prefer to take the initiative.

Which, if you were a little more accepting of, you would have seen that this is all that I was doing by writing my thoughts on what social anxiety is.
...but hey, you are free to place your faith in "CBT" (as you call it) all the while not recognising that this is what I've been doing.
Do you really think that CBT is any different to what has been around for ages? -or, for that matter, why do you seem to think that 'perception change' is beyond the average person but can only be 'properly' done if a 'professional' takes the leading role-? -which, by your response to my doing CBT on my self (yes, because "CBT" is just altering perception), is the only conclusion I can come up with.

You write ...."You can reply to this if you like. I'm not going to respond back."

...I couldn't really expect anything more from you.

 

[Jack-B]

This is one of the most important posts i have written on this site so far.....

To my mind, one of the main ways of overcoming SA/SP and indeed a lot of other problems is understanding where happiness comes from.

In my opinion, the biggest conception or idea that anyone with SA deals with is 'what others think about me'. This induces distorted thoughts of the self and others and is the nuclear bomb within our mind that is so subtle, its actually unnoticeable to many sufferers, like a stealth sniper.

When we dont fully understand happiness or how it is caused, our mind searches for it all the time in a myriad of places and things and one of those places it searches, for us, mainly is 'within the thoughts of others'.

What we desire, happiness, we search for, we really feel exists within the thoughts of others. You may say, well no actually i dont believe that, that was my first thought aswell but if you check, you will see for yourself the truth behind what im saying from your own experience.

In almost every situation when we encounter others and certainly in anxious moments our mind definitely believes that our happiness is to be found 'in the thoughts of others'. The anxiety we feel is a non-finding of and not uniting with happiness we feel in our mind at that time, so anxiety results, panic, fear, loss, seperation, hopelessness, desperation. We feel diconnected and alone.

You may still feel that we dont look for happiness when we have a chat to other people or give a presentation or even go to a restaurant where others are looking at us, but our mind is searching for and not finding this happiness. But its constantly searching within the thoughts of others because it feels that is the source of the real happiness that we so desire. Check it out. If i am liked by others, if i am seen in a certain way, if i do this will anyone notice, oh i cant wear that, why is that person looking at me like that, i have to come across as funny, smart, strong, likeable, knowledgable and so on, if i send out this post why wont anyone read it and so on. All dependent on what others think as a cause of our happiness, yet it doesnt matter what we look like or what we do, what we say, how we smell, how little we know, how stupid we sound, what others think is not a cause of our happiness.

Our happiness is uniquely dependent on whether or not our mind mixes with positive thoughts which give rise to peace and calm. So are we calm in most situations? No. Are we looking in the right place for our happiness? Of course not!

So if happiness is not dependent on what others think, then why do i still believe this to be so even if i still dont admit this to be one of the main causes of anxiety? Because you have not properly investigated the thoughts of others.

Where is happiness to be found within the thoughts of others? In what others think about us? Surely this is worth asking ourselves? What is the nature of their thoughts? If you take most ordinary people all you would see is negativity, pain, unhappiness, anger, jealousy, hatred, confusion, depression. If you could hear their thoughts for one day you would cry. So why does this mind of ours crave something so impure, so contaminated, how could it ever be a cause of our happiness? A source which is contaminated, the thoughts of others, is not a source of our happiness. And even if their thoughts of us were pure and loving, its our own perception, our own mind which generates happiness is it not?

What do the thoughts of others see anyway, do they see us? Do their thoughts see us? No. They see their own perception of us, they see their own view of who they think we are. So why do we desire to be thought well of, the good thoughts of others, why be dependent on something thats not even about us? Why hide how we really feel, why not say what we want to say, why? Because we still feel strongly that what others think about us is so important and that we will not be happy if they find out about us. We daren't say what's on our mind in case it challenges our dependency on what others think, our opinions become the slave of our own deluded understanding, we cant open our mouth because it feels like stepping out into the unknown. We are slaves to the thoughts of others. What if they dont approve? What happens then? The mind still searching for this happiness.....If people dont like me, what then? Can i be happy if others think bad of me? Yes.

We define ourself mainly through what other people think or how we think we should behave because of others.

Others thoughts are inseperable from our own mind. Everything you know about other people comes from your mind. Everything that others have said to you comes from your mind, else how would you know what they said? Everything others think about you exists in your own mind.

Rubbish, what are you talking about? It comes from their mind not mine. What do you mean? It doesnt mean you can read others minds or know what others are thinking, we dont know what others are thinking but when they tell us, it exists in our own mind and if they dont tell us we imagine what they think, we infer or imagine, so it comes from our mind.

Why does our mind hide its momentary thoughts from the momentary thoughts of others when those thoughts of others can only be perceived by our mind!?! Its like our mind is confused running round in circles.

So when we get anxious our mind is projecting/creating inside 'what others think' and because this is an aspect of our own mind there is no reason to feel anxious. We dont have to experience fear. Its like being on a different side of our mind. Even if we are looked at and hated by others we still dont have to feel fear. It becomes less threatening when we realize its all being perceived within our mind.

When we walk into a room with lots of people in it, we may feel anxious, only because our mind is projecting, 'what others think', when you remove that seperation that feels there is someone thinking something of me and realise its all within the mind your mind becomes empty of those thoughts. So its like walking into an empty room with no one there, except they will still be there but you will not experience the anxious mind. All by realizing that the thoughts of others are not seperate from our mind, how can they be? If the thoughts of others were seperate from our mind, we could not percieve them, so they must be inside our mind. How do they exist? Inseperable in the sense that the thoughts of others are only known to our mind by our mind.

So we are attached to 'others thoughts' believing what they think will bring us real happiness and joy. No this cant be right can it? What would we be like if we realised that our happiness is not dependent on what others think? How free would we be, we could say what was on our mind anytime, walk around without feeling all self concious, give a speech to a large crowd without worrying about how we'll be seen or if we mess it up because it just wouldnt matter to us, it would be like chasing a giant dog turd we just wouldnt bother would we? We'd realise we wouldnt need it for our happiness, we could say whatever without being so dependent on the views of others.

But my family love me, their thoughts make me happy, where is that happiness really coming from? People say nice things to me, that makes me happy. Where is that happiness coming from? People say nasty things to me and think bad of me, where is that unhappiness coming from?

Jack