sabbath92001
Banned
ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) has worked for me. Is there anyone here who has tried ACT and hasn't had any success with it?
Is ACT the cure?
- Thread starter sabbath92001
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sabbath92001
Banned
signs05 said:
from http://www.contextualpsychology.org/comparing_act_and_cbt
ACT has moved away from the traditional CBT emphasis on changing or correcting one's thoughts in order to alleviate suffering. Instead, ACT aims to alter the functions of our private experiences (thoughts, feelings, memories, bodily reactions), so they no longer entangle us. Said another way, ACT aims to change our relationship with these private events so we can become free from their grip, and free from the patterns that bind us and prevent us from living a flexible, meaningful, and enjoyable life. In the service of these aims, ACT incorporates acceptance strategies, mindfulness techniques, and a wide range of behavioral approaches already known to be effective from CBT.
random
Well-known member
Like Maarten, I too have been helped by CBT and it includes acceptance. In my experience - acceptance is in the form of not denying how you feel. I didn't quite understand the text about ACT that talks about changing one's relationship to events etc. so I hunted down a quote from a webpage that just might be useful to anyone else who was wondering as I was:
"...Behavioral Psychology's emphasis on changing actions, not just thoughts and feelings. Acceptance-based Cognitive Behavior Therapy's emphasis on observing instead of controlling thoughts and feelings is incorporated. The wisdom of Zen Buddhism's philosophy of simply allowing things to be is emphasized..."
I found that text here: http://www.orelpsychology.com/www1/Est-Home.asp?eid=19
Not sure how well it captures it but I found it clarifying. For me - CBT means the assumption that our thoughts create feelings and moods, and we can examine how we think and when we change our thinking, our moods change. Some of the websites I came across when looking up ACT suggested that 'controling thoughts and feelings' found in CBT may be part of the problem for some which ACT hopes to address. Is it correct to say that ACT perhaps places a greater emphasis on accepting or 'allowing things to be"?
"...Behavioral Psychology's emphasis on changing actions, not just thoughts and feelings. Acceptance-based Cognitive Behavior Therapy's emphasis on observing instead of controlling thoughts and feelings is incorporated. The wisdom of Zen Buddhism's philosophy of simply allowing things to be is emphasized..."
I found that text here: http://www.orelpsychology.com/www1/Est-Home.asp?eid=19
Not sure how well it captures it but I found it clarifying. For me - CBT means the assumption that our thoughts create feelings and moods, and we can examine how we think and when we change our thinking, our moods change. Some of the websites I came across when looking up ACT suggested that 'controling thoughts and feelings' found in CBT may be part of the problem for some which ACT hopes to address. Is it correct to say that ACT perhaps places a greater emphasis on accepting or 'allowing things to be"?
random
Well-known member
I dug a little further and found this (I think I am beginning to see the acceptance part of ACT):
"Take the example of a client struggling with depressogenic thoughts.
The cognitive therapist will work with the client in examining the content of their thoughts and assist them in developing challenges or counters to them--i.e., cognitive therapy ultimately focuses on changing the content of the client's thoughts. Unfortunately, the depressed person never thinks to challenge or counter until the thoughts are already present.
In contrast, the contextual behavioral therapist assists the client in examining if their current style of thinking and content of mind is new and novel or more of the same thoughts and reactions that have been experienced in the past -- i.e.,.new situation, same old thoughts. The therapist assists the client in examining how well it has worked for them to take the thoughts under consideration seriously-- i.e., to react to their thoughts as if they were facts. Then, emphasis is placed on teaching the client how to notice rather react to their thoughts-(i.e., to accept private experience). Once the client learns to notice and be aware of their current stance toward private experience and is free from the tendency to react automatically, they are able to experiment with alternative solutions and identify effective responses. The client can focus on problem-solving rather than on controlling aversive private experiences."
I am glad to hear that ACT has helped you. Yay for our side! (seekers everywhere). For me CBT has been healing because much of my painful yet absolute beliefs are...I am sorry to say...wrong and I am learning how to recognize and face the pain and then set the record straight.
The text I cited above in quotes was taken from here: http://www.emp-dbt.com/dbt.htm
Note that some ACT articles I read refer to the practice as 'contextual behavioral' therapy.
"Take the example of a client struggling with depressogenic thoughts.
The cognitive therapist will work with the client in examining the content of their thoughts and assist them in developing challenges or counters to them--i.e., cognitive therapy ultimately focuses on changing the content of the client's thoughts. Unfortunately, the depressed person never thinks to challenge or counter until the thoughts are already present.
In contrast, the contextual behavioral therapist assists the client in examining if their current style of thinking and content of mind is new and novel or more of the same thoughts and reactions that have been experienced in the past -- i.e.,.new situation, same old thoughts. The therapist assists the client in examining how well it has worked for them to take the thoughts under consideration seriously-- i.e., to react to their thoughts as if they were facts. Then, emphasis is placed on teaching the client how to notice rather react to their thoughts-(i.e., to accept private experience). Once the client learns to notice and be aware of their current stance toward private experience and is free from the tendency to react automatically, they are able to experiment with alternative solutions and identify effective responses. The client can focus on problem-solving rather than on controlling aversive private experiences."
I am glad to hear that ACT has helped you. Yay for our side! (seekers everywhere). For me CBT has been healing because much of my painful yet absolute beliefs are...I am sorry to say...wrong and I am learning how to recognize and face the pain and then set the record straight.
The text I cited above in quotes was taken from here: http://www.emp-dbt.com/dbt.htm
Note that some ACT articles I read refer to the practice as 'contextual behavioral' therapy.
sabbath92001
Banned
random said:
Yeah, ACT says we can't control our thoughts or feelings, so instead we focus on what we can control: our arms, legs and mouth. Sometimes I have to treat my mind and body like an out-of-control robot. I become an observer / operator to accomplish what I know I can.
signs05
Well-known member
I think ACT can be a bit of relief, getting out of ones mind.
However, I could not possibly imagine a cure which does not target the destructive thoughts I have. I have found in CBT a way to deal with anxiety that is logical and helpful. It takes a while and its ALOT of work but its worth it, if you stick by it.
I don't want to 'Accept' anything that has to do with social phobia, especially since I know I can change it, others have done it and I myself have noticed great progress in my thinking as a result of doing CBT exercises, so i will not accept something that I know is faulty and destructive. It would feel like surrendering.
My 2 cents.
However, I could not possibly imagine a cure which does not target the destructive thoughts I have. I have found in CBT a way to deal with anxiety that is logical and helpful. It takes a while and its ALOT of work but its worth it, if you stick by it.
I don't want to 'Accept' anything that has to do with social phobia, especially since I know I can change it, others have done it and I myself have noticed great progress in my thinking as a result of doing CBT exercises, so i will not accept something that I know is faulty and destructive. It would feel like surrendering.
My 2 cents.
sabbath92001
Banned
signs05 said:
Let's say I have a job interview I have to go to. I could either spend my preparation time debating my thoughts and feelings and avoid the interview (CBT) or accept whatever crap my mind and body throw at me and instead go to the interview, get the job, pay my bills, etc. (ACT). I choose to live my life and if in the process of living my thoughts and feelings become more rational then great. I've spent far too many years trying to figure out SAD, screw it, life's too short.
signs05
Well-known member
This shows you have clearly not understood CBT one bit.
If I had to go to a job interview, which I find much easier now due to my CBT exercises, than I would tell myself that the thoughts that are making me nervous are normal and that I can handle whatever happens. Being nervous before a job interview is normal since it can be a life changing event.
I have made alot of progress with my CBT exercises and I notice it everyday in my thinking. I would never give up and accept thoughts that are incorrect and influencing the way I think. Even if you 'get out of your mind' as some ACT therapists say, your mind is still the place where all your decisions are taken, and hence if you do not challenge your thoughts they will always effect you, even if you for a moment or two manage to ignore them.
EDIT: I dislike how you allude that people doing ACT would take more control of their lives, with this statement of yours :
I have with the help of CBT litterature and exercises found a fulltime job which I have had for quiet some time now, paying all my bills, studying parttime, while always doing CBT exercises and feeling better. I see no reason to stop and surrender to my negative thoughts when I've come this far.
random
Well-known member
I agree with Sign05's posts. I don't want to acceptive destructive thoughts and I am learning to pull them out by the roots. CBT has improved and continues to improve the quality of my life in ways that really matter to me. I am glad that you found ACT helpful - really glad. But based on your description I prefer CBT's approach for my own needs.
sabbath92001
Banned
If CBT has worked for you, great. But CBT made me worse. This post is about ACT. There are plenty of people that haven't had any luck with meds and/or CBT. And I think ACT can help them. If you don't know ACT then don't put it down out of ignorance.
ACT is the next evolution of CBT. It's for people like me who have tried CBT and CBT has failed for them, or in my case, made them worse. For me, CBT was like trying to stop a war within my mind and body. ACT is like leaving the battlefield.
ACT is the next evolution of CBT. It's for people like me who have tried CBT and CBT has failed for them, or in my case, made them worse. For me, CBT was like trying to stop a war within my mind and body. ACT is like leaving the battlefield.
random
Well-known member
sabbath92001 said:
I am glad that ACT helped you and I am optimistic that it can help others. Not sure if you are refering to me specifically but my comments about preferring the approach that CBT uses for my own issues was not meant as a put down to other methods that help other people. I am glad to hear that ACT has been added to the arsenal of treatments available, and that it helped you.
I may have misinterpreted your comments regarding your disappointment with CBT as possibly discouraging others from trying CBT and I wanted to comment that CBT is also a viable method works for some people. I appreciate the detail which you provided, and on which I based my opinion of the ACT approach; I think people considering treatment will be helped by your input. I apologize if I misunderstood your comments about CBT.
sabbath92001
Banned
random said:
I was trying to make people aware that CBT can make you worse. My suggestion would be to try ACT first. The self-help workbook is less than $20. I'm just curious why people wouldn't try this, it's cheap, no dangerous side effects, based on science, etc. The inventor even answers people's questions on the free Yahoo! group called ACT_for_the_public.