i have a theory - that may help you guys

[idea]

IF I OFFEND ANYONE IM SORRY, IM KINDA "STABBING IN THE DARK" WITH A LOT OF THIS! AND I WANT OPINIONS!

can't say i suffer from SP.

but i have an interesting concept that applies to MANY things.

it basically works like this... (i will b stating MANY things that are obvious in this explanation, so just keep reading through)

i think part of SP is actually the belief that you are different. it starts as a belief from an experience, and maybe some people obtain this belief naturally. now that is nothing new i know (and this applies to so many things not just SP).

but my theory is this. i think one who has SP is actually covering up something they feel necessary. now, i really don't know how to explain this, cause it's not an easy concept grasp, but it's a catch 22 basically.

person covers up something they BELIEVE exists >> causes them to over-think in situations >> overtime becomes natural through conditioning... now yes i'm still stating the obvious, but now here is the kinda funny part, but i honestly believe this may help some people.. i think SP doesn't exist, it's THERE, it EFFECTS people, but it doesn't exist, it's just a name. i need to start explaining it like this to get to my point.

i believe, the individual must become comfortable with saying, I HAVE SP! even tho! it is in fact a term of something that will not exist, eventually!! now say the individual was not aware of the term SP, they need to accept that they DO feel different, they ARE feeling different. and i believe through accepting you ARE feeling what you are feeling, you can combat it.

i'm going to keep going on till i feel i explain this, cause it's the weirdest concept and i have thought long and hard how to word it, yet i still can't get my idea across well.

like walk out in public and don't try to hide or 'TRY! to fit in'.. by "ATTEMPTING" to FIT IN you are in fact causing (well i believe) the things that you feel. it is this attempt to feel accepted that i think the problem roots from. not the fact that you're not accepted in itself!!, the fact that you TRY to be accepted, and overthink the situation and maybe freezeup, act awkward etc...

the REALISATION, the CONCEPT that you are different inspires you to act in SUCH A WAY!!!! when in fact going with ur natural flow (which may b quite far now) is what you need to do. i think a good way of thinking of stuff is like this. you have jobs around ur house, rather than worrying about things like people watching you (yes i kno theres no1 in ur house), you just worry about the task hand. people with SP worry about EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE TASK AT HAND, or things within the TASK AT HAND THAT DONT MATTER --- UNLESS YOU MAKE THEM MATTER! i think SP can be trained to an extent through focus on the right things, this is only 1 component tho, focus alone i understand will do very little.!

i know you might b reading it and still think i am stating the dead obvious. but im trying to get an idea across here and you need to kinda feel it to understand it. and i really wanna get this idea out here, especially in a forum, i think it could b of great benefit.

im going to go into more detail later

opinions please!! i hope im conveying what im trying to say here, and i kno its not as easy as 1,2,3, its the complete opposite i understand!!

 

[shy_guy]

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[idea]

I understand precisely what you're saying. I know you don't convince yourself of being an introvert or SP.

now say the individual was not aware of the term SP, they need to accept that they DO feel different, they ARE feeling different. and i believe through accepting you ARE feeling what you are feeling, you can combat it.

hmm what I was trying to say here, i just didn't convey it that well, is that, rather than try to act confident, accept that you are like you are, and the confidence (over a period of time) could be built up from accepting who you are - to such a level of confidence where the SP can be watered down. rather than looking at it in the respect of constantly satisfying the hunger to attempt to fit in. but then again i guess at the same time, some people don't try to act confident and still suffer such problems. it must b annoying, cause it really is a mindset, but its so real, and fixed at the same time.

edit: your last paragraph i understand well. i've felt similar with other things. i gotta admit i feel taht way with soem things aswell. as in something that annoys the hell outta me till i reach a resolution, and then a few days later i will b like "what was i worrying about".

i think friends would b one of the key factors of improvement. having good friends, especially friends who i guess you can feel relaxed around can surely build up confidence. i guess it would b annoying, cause you cant really say you have it, cause they being the typical human for 1 might not understand, but 2 might even make them look down upon you - im not trying to be silly, but people can and do look down on people with such things, its absolutely the worst thing ever, but it is. so using words like social phobia could be dangerous i guess.

and the rambling is good, i think its awesome that you can vent all your stuff out here. thanks for the feedback as well, i am really interested in what people have to say here.

I've fought to not try and make mountains out of little molehills of tiny social encounters that have left me feeling wrong

What i was trying to say in my first post is i think you have to do the opposite to logic, dont fight it!! the more you fight it, i believe this is the type of conditioning that creates this whole thing in the first place.. i really believe the fighting, the acting to stop, the attempts to hide it, are what bring it on. i think subconciously one will naturally attempt to cover up their "faults" unless they make a concious effort to drop it. and like ive said, i know theres a lot more to actually "doing" (or not doing lol) that than realisation!

 

[shy_guy]

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[idea]

yeah. i know its not really remotely easy at all. if it was, we wouldnt have the problem in the first place!! its just this area does interest me greatly and i wish i could find ways to reduce the effects of SP.

yeah i understand what ur saying with the friends thing, well i can make sense of it.

arghh i so badly wanna help everyone here, its making me paranoid that i cant figure out what to do!!! i honestly mean that.

edit: i need 2 get some sleep. i shall read what has been written 2morrow if i get the time, or very soon either way

 

[shy_guy]

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[shy_guy]

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[arjuna]

I haven't had time to read all the posts but in response to the OP I really agree with what s/he is saying. I must try it. It reminded me of what Krishnamurti said that fighting fear, anxiety, evil,...actually is that feeling. I don't know whether understanding this from an intellectual point of view will make be believe this when I put it into practice. In any case, I will try. Cheers.

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi Idea,

I really like what you say. I think there is a real brilliance to it. ...And you are able explain things in a way that is easy enough to understand.

You seem to say that social phobia is all about a person feeling very different and that they need to hide something about themselves. And that this shame causes us to deny how we are different and how we feel inferior in an attempt to 'fit in' , but that this actually creates the opposite result. And that our perception of ourselves in that we have something unnacceptable, and that this ends up being our reality.

But that if we got over this shame enough to admit to feeling different and inferior, that the more we faced up to feeling insecure and unsure, the more secure and sure we would be.

Sort of like us becoming sure of our unsureness, secure about being insecure.

I really like that.
And I'll have to give it some more thought again, because there are some important things to think about that go with your ideas.

 

[shy_guy]

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[TAMPA-BAY]

.
Well from what i've read so far one word can sumarize your theory

PERFECTIONISM.

When I am in a hurry I dont seem to have SA.
also IDEA since you stated that you dont have SA what brings you to this place. No disrespect or anything we're just curious.

 

[idea]

shy_guy, you're never going offtopic!! i take so much interest in everything you say!! and yeah i do understand that this is very much a theory, and the actual applying is just another thing altogether. but im thinking!! there IS an answer to everything, just not always an accessible answer, but doesnt stop one from trying.

Hi Idea,

I really like what you say. I think there is a real brilliance to it. ...And you are able explain things in a way that is easy enough to understand.

You seem to say that social phobia is all about a person feeling very different and that they need to hide something about themselves. And that this shame causes us to deny how we are different and how we feel inferior in an attempt to 'fit in' , but that this actually creates the opposite result. And that our perception of ourselves in that we have something unnacceptable, and that this ends up being our reality.

But that if we got over this shame enough to admit to feeling different and inferior, that the more we faced up to feeling insecure and unsure, the more secure and sure we would be.

Sort of like us becoming sure of our unsureness, secure about being insecure.

I really like that.
And I'll have to give it some more thought again, because there are some important things to think about that go with your ideas.

Wow thanks!! THANKYOU!! I really can't thankyou enough.. you summed that up sooo well !!

also IDEA since you stated that you dont have SA what brings you to this place. No disrespect or anything we're just curious.

Hmm, well i never looked at myself as having SA, it was more just in some situations i felt anxious, ive never had it to a terrible extent at all- basically it doesn't affect my life in anyway, not even remotely. but, none the less, i would feel it, and i eventually looked up such symptoms and came to this. i truly believe everybody experiences such anxiety.. but it is the level to which the body is trained to exploit the anxiety that differs from individual to individual.

but yeah, i think setting goals related to life rather than SA is a starting point. like rather than thinking"i could do with some milk from the shop" and then getting all up tight about the idea of leaving home, the focus needs to be on the milk, not the procedure of getting the milk. like just think, big enthusiastic voice "i am going to the shop FOR MILK!" and it's this constant process of worrying about the wrong thing that TRAINS your mind to think about the wrong things.

the reason i am so strong about this theory is this. because i use the ideas myself. i will give you an example. say i was to give a speech on a particular topic. rather than worry about how i am standing etc.. my pose, my speaking style.. i look at it like this.. "i am here to TEACH these people! I WANT THEM TO LEARN FROM WHAT IM SAYING" and i just think well IF for some reason i am little awkward about it, i mean what the heck, some of the most clever people, in fact nearly all of the most clever, most successful people have generally had some kinda of awkwardness. and such awkwardness can even be respected, some musicians etc.. become known for their style.

I haven't had time to read all the posts but in response to the OP I really agree with what s/he is saying. I must try it. It reminded me of what Krishnamurti said that fighting fear, anxiety, evil,...actually is that feeling. I don't know whether understanding this from an intellectual point of view will make be believe this when I put it into practice. In any case, I will try. Cheers.

this is exactly the kind of thing i wanted to get out of this topic!! thanks so much!

 

[Jack-B]

Idea,



"i think part of SP is actually the belief that you are different. it starts as a belief from an experience, and maybe some people obtain this belief naturally. now that is nothing new i know (and this applies to so many things not just SP). "

The view that oneself is different from others is innate in our experience which is why we feel seperation, a gap, them and me. SP is an inner creation which develops from this view and that mind seeks to protect 'me' from 'others', ironically, both exist in the same mind. So as you say, SP, does not ultimately exist, its mind made, however it does exist validly to the mind that experiences it, believes it to be real.

"person covers up something they BELIEVE exists"

Yup. Where does SP exist? In the mind of the person experiencing SP. There is nothing to hide.

"i believe, the individual must become comfortable with saying, I HAVE SP! even tho! it is in fact a term of something that will not exist, eventually!!"

SP exists as mere creation of the mind. For someone to accept it , they have to take responsibilty in its creation by saying, 'my own mind has caused this', only then can they fully embrace it and it loses its power and then fades away, back into the mind, its source. Theres nothing to be afraid of except 'my own creation'. Its not given to us from some outside source as a punishment.

"now say the individual was not aware of the term SP, they need to accept that they DO feel different, they ARE feeling different. and i believe through accepting you ARE feeling what you are feeling, you can combat it."

What you feel is part of your mind, your perception of others is also part of your mind, as is the perception of yourself, so it would seem like different parts of the mind are in contradiction. This creates so much confusion, doubt, fear, when in reality all these parts are of equal taste arising from the same source.

"you are in fact causing (well i believe) the things that you feel"

Yes. Because you have previously created certain actions, you now experience the effects of those actions. So you may not be creating anxiety at one moment but maybe experiencing its effect and then consequently from that create further anxiety for yourself in believing this appearance to your mind to be true, thus perpetuating the cycle of deception.

"when in fact going with ur natural flow (which may b quite far now) is what you need to do"

All you need to do is create something different for yourself regardless of what appears to your mind. You have choice in how you respond. You may be frightened, so what? You may be anxious, so what? What you create in the moment is what you will experience in the future(moment).

"people with SP worry about EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE TASK AT HAND, or things within the TASK AT HAND THAT DONT MATTER --- UNLESS YOU MAKE THEM MATTER! i think SP can be trained to an extent through focus on the right things, this is only 1 component tho, focus alone i understand will do very little.!"

Its called inappropriate attention, whereby the mind wanders all over the place causing nothing but unpeacefulness and lack of control. When our mind becomes more single pointed/concentated through mental training we have power to do what we are doing in a peaceful way, with far greater control.

"i know you might b reading it and still think i am stating the dead obvious. but im trying to get an idea across here and you need to kinda feel it to understand it. and i really wanna get this idea out here, especially in a forum, i think it could b of great benefit."

You dont need to get an idea across in hope that someone will understand, you just need to create the space for others to see for themselves. When you want others to understand an idea, you want part of your mind (others) to understand that idea. You only need to focus on helping with a good intention and motivation, all good things will arise naturally from this. And yes, you are right, it is of great benefit!

Jack

 

[LittleMissMuffet]

Hi,
I wanted to add a few things.

One is that I really agree with the emphasis on hiding something -which implies that we feel 'shame'. -I think that this is spot-on. And, idea, you mentioned about how the label 'social phobic' can be dangerous....
well, for me it feels as though I've been through a real trial just dealing with the idea of having an official 'mental illness'; and I think that the shame I've has had to do with my believing my self to be social inadequate, so being called 'socially phobic' is like pointing-out my shame to me even more.

...Yet, something strange has happened, since I've been fired from work, seen a psychiatrist and subsequently entertained all sorts of doubts and fears about the exact nature of my difference as a person. -which is, that, in considering negative descriptions of my self and my problems -I have somehow developed actual trust in my own image and perception of my self.

It is like what I am afraid of: my difference from others and the magnitude of my individual inadequacies ...which caused me to feel overly concerned -ashamed and self-concious- about how others saw me... I can vouch for on behalf of my self, once more. I feel like I can trust my own perceptions and opinions, mostly about who I am.
And basically, facing doubts and in a way my biggest fears -in the form of the label of mentally ill and "SOCIALLY phobic"- seems to have made me realise that my faults and problems are not so big, nor so important. -Ironically, for me, facing a large bulk of my doubts (in the form of being separated and singled-out from what is considered normal -ie society) has enabled me to put these into perspective. Like I've measured them against my own preferred image of my self, and this positive part of me is still left -it hasn't been swallowed-up.

....Anyhow, it is very early in terms of my recovery from anxiety issues. But I still feel much better about my self than I did 3 or 4 months ago.

Even in the last couple of days, my anxiety seems to have melted away. Nervousness, etc, doesn't seem to bother me. And I think this is so, because what others think of me really doesn't seem to concern me anymore. -Like I've considered the worst possibilities and I'm still who I am and I still like my self (actually, I am able to more fully like my self).

 

[Jack-B]

Muffy

"Even in the last couple of days, my anxiety seems to have melted away. Nervousness, etc, doesn't seem to bother me. And I think this is so, because what others think of me really doesn't seem to concern me anymore. -Like I've considered the worst possibilities and I'm still who I am and I still like my self (actually, I am able to more fully like my self)."

Wonderful!

Jack