RELIGIOUS DEBATE THREAD

[LA-girl]

Hey guys!

Here it is, the missing thread...or the remains that is! :wink:

We have been debating this issue for quite a while, but I assume there will still rise questions in this topic from time to time, so here it is once again. It was Zosima who first started this thread, but when he left all his posts and threads were deleted...luckily it was still in his "history" so first I will re-post all the old ones...

I have put the pages out on this link
(PAGE 1-15):

http://home.no.net/aannass/ReligiousDebateThread.html

 

[LA-girl]

Earlier we have discussed hell quite a lot (!), now I thought it was about time to share a little bit about what the Bible says about heaven!

WHAT WILL HEAVEN BE LIKE??

Will the righteous sit on clouds out there in space, playing harps and singing hallelujah choruses all during eternity?

NO!!!!! This is a very false and unbiblical picture of heaven.

So what does the Bible say when describing heaven?

Fulfil Gods original plan

I want you to see that this future home now being prepared for us will actually fulfill God's original plan for man's perfect happiness. It will match the exquisite beauty and glory that God incorporated into the Garden of Eden. Isaiah described it this way: "For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him." Isaiah 64:4.

Now let me assure you that the home of the righteous is going to be right here on this earth. Jesus tells us this in Matthew 5:5. In giving His Beatitudes He said: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." Mark it down well. God's people will finally dwell in this beautiful world, not as it is today, but as it shall be prepared for the saints.

This is really most natural when you think of it. God planned for His children to live here when He created the world. He placed our first parents in a paradise without spot or blemish. Now it is true that the devil came into the picture and interrupted God's plan, but he did not change that plan. God will finally carry out His great original purpose as it was revealed in the Garden of Eden. He will restore this earth to its first dominion. He will make it sinless and perfect again, and His people will live here in the beauty of Eden restored. The wicked today have more of the earth than the righteous, and I suppose the finance companies have more than both groups together. But some day, God says, the saints will inherit the earth.

The capital city of that future glory land is called the New Jerusalem, and it is currently under construction according to the testimony of Jesus and Paul. It will cover an area greater than Virginia, the District of Columbia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Rhode Island combined. If you find that unbelievable, don't take my word for it. Here it is in the Bible: "But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city." Hebrews 11:16. Here we are told that God is getting a city ready for His people. He is preparing one now.

What kind of city is God building for His faithful ones?
Where is it being made ready? Revelation 21:2 answers: "And I John saw the holy city ... coming down from God out of heaven." In paradise at this moment, far above the stars and planets, God is preparing mansions for you and me. Someday that gleaming white city will descend right down to the earth and settle here as the eternal home of the righteous. How big will it be on completion? Revelation 21:16 tells us: "And the city lieth foursquare, ... and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs."

You will notice that the city is perfectly square and the circumference is 12,000 furlongs, or 1,500 miles. Since a furlong is one-eighth of a mile, this means the city is 375 miles on each side. Believe it or not, 450 New York Cities could be placed inside its gigantic walls. The streets are pure gold, and the gates of it are solid pearl - not merely composed of pearls, but actually made of one solid pearl. Imagine, if you can, a city of these dimensions being right here on this earth!


Bodies of Flesh and Bone
I want to present in human language, if possible, some of the beauty, glory, and reality of heaven. Mark it down that heaven is very, very real. This reality is its most wonderful quality. We are going to have real bodies and take up real activities. In fact, in Isaiah 65 we are told that the redeemed will plant vineyards and eat the fruit of them; we are going to build houses, and live in them. "And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands." Verses 21, 22.

Now it may surprise you to learn this, but we are going to have bodies of flesh and bone in heaven. That is what the Bible teaches. Two texts will prove this point beyond question. In Philippians 3:21 we read: "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body." How exciting it is to know that our present physical natures will be changed. We will have bodies just like Jesus had after He was resurrected! There is no mystery here because Jesus explained to His disciples all about that body. He said, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39.

First, He appeared to them and said He had flesh and bone. Then He ate with them, and finally, He ascended bodily right out of their midst. This sequence of events in the life of our Lord answers many questions concerning our own nature in the hereafter. We will have a body made like the very same body Jesus possessed after His resurrection.

We will know eachother
Although the former troubles and sorrows will be erased from the mind, we certainly will not forget our friends and family. No one will be known only as an animated number! The truth is that we will know each other better in heaven than we know one another now. Paul wrote, "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 Corinthians 13:12.
If I understand the English language at all, this means that we will know one another better when we get up there than we do here. We see things very dimly here, and we misunderstand each other often. This will never happen in the new earth. We will know each other clearly and plainly.
Jesus said that "many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 8:11.
Surely this indicates that we will recognize those great stalwarts of the Old Testament. Not only will we be forever united with those we loved on earth, but we can make the acquaintance of those mighty spiritual giants who inspired us from the pages of the Bible.

City homes and country homes
Somebody says, "Well, I don't know how to build. I don't think I want to build houses." Listen, don't think it will be the kind of laborious work you see the poor carpenters in this world doing. No, it is not going to be like that at all. As for your knowledge of how to build, don't worry about it for a moment. There will be no limit to what you can learn. You will have a whole eternity before you to learn and understand. If you don't know anything about music, take a music course. Join the heavenly choir. You can go into the bass section one day and learn to sing bass, and then you can go into the tenor section and sing tenor. You can sing all the parts and learn just as much about music as you want to learn.
You can learn architecture. You can learn to build. You can learn about nature.

Visit other stars and planets
Or maybe you want to study astronomy. Sometimes, when we look up into the heavens and see a little yellow star glimmering in the southwest sky, we say, "My, I wonder what that little star is away up there?" Listen, someday we won't need to wonder; we can just say, "I think I will go and find out." Then we can visit that star. That is what the new earth will be like. We can travel with the speed of light. Angels can do it now. Daniel started praying one day, and before he ended his prayer an angel had come all the way from heaven to his side. The angel said, "Daniel, when you began to pray, God sent me from His throne, and now I'm here in answer to your prayer." We will be able to travel like that. We can go out to visit the great, expansive universe of God and understand things that no human mind has been able to comprehend before.

NOTE: The rightous will be able to fly like angels at speeds faster than light. Since they inherit all things (Revelation 21:7), they may visit other worlds, taking only moments to get there. According to Scripture, God has made other worlds that are unfallen (Job 1:6; Hebrews 1:2; 11:3).
SO MAYBE THIS MEANS THAT THERE ARE LIFE ON OTHER PLANETS???!!!!

Animals in heaven
Oftentimes people ask me if there will be animals in heaven. The Bible has a surprising number of references to this question. Pet lovers will have a field day there!

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the suckling child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain." Isaiah 11:6-9.

The ravages of sin have made animal nature unpredictable at best. But in the restored Eden of God there will be absolutely no danger of violence from lions, leopards, bears, or snakes - much less from the beloved animal pets of earth.

No Sickness and No Death
Since there will be no sickness, pain, or death, some occupations and professions will be totally out of place. No doctors, nurses, morticians, or insurance agents could find a soul to do business with. Financial problems will be banished forever. The very issues which cause the greatest grief now will not even exist in the minds of the saints. They will forget eternally the troubles of this life.

Children
The Bible says children will be there, and they are going to play in the streets and never get hurt. "And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof." Zechariah 8:5. Won't that be wonderful? Parents, have you ever heard squealing automobile brakes which made you freeze in your tracks? Then you ran to the window with your heart in your mouth to see whether your child was in the street? You have done that more than once, haven't you? But there will be no fear that your children are not safe in the new earth. And even when they play alongside the river of life, you are not going to be worried about them at all. They will not fall in and drown. "They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord." Isaiah 65:25.

Children are going to grow up there. The Bible says they will grow up as calves in the stall, and I think we adults are going to grow up, too. We will grow up spiritually and intellectually.

All defects will be left behind when we go there. In Isaiah 35:5, 6 we have a beautiful promise: "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert." One of the greatest joys will be to hear voices on every side saying, "I can see again!" and "I can hear!" and "I'm strong!" All the infirmities of old age will disappear forever and ever, and we will see only the bloom of eternal youth. Every mind will be keen and alert.

The Bible says, "They shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." Isaiah 40:31. With bodies that will never tire we may explore the majestic expanse of the City of God. It will take only a tiny fragment of eternity to traverse every street of that New Jerusalem with its 1,500-mile wall of purest jasper. Every square inch of this reconstituted planet will scintillate with the rarest beauty and appeal. Those who love to travel will find heaven a special place. The entire unfallen universe will be open to our study and observation. We will be able to visit the billions of exciting planets, solar systems, and galaxies that were never spoiled by the touch of sin. We may go where we like, stay as long as we please, and return as quick as a flash. Is anything more wonderful to contemplate?

Have you ever thought of the joy of getting acquainted with folk you have read about in the Bible? Then, I have thought about Abraham and that terrible day when he took his own son, at God's order, to kill him on top of Mt. Moriah. Oh, what an experience that must have been for Abraham! I have tried to imagine what that father felt as he toiled up the side of the mountain, knowing that with his own hand he had to kill his beloved son. Someday I want to ask Abraham about that awful experience, and he will explain just what it meant when he was about to take his own son's life.

Unimaginable Beauty and Happiness
In 1 Corinthians 2:9 we are told, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." Now, to me that is a promise without parallel. There is nothing quite like it in all the Bible. When it says that I have never seen anything to compare with heaven, that is great enough, because I have seen some wonderful things in this world.

One of the most pleasing aspects of that holy habitation is that it will be a clean city and a clean country. "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." Revelation 21:27. Can you picture an entire city, much less a planet, in which no foul smell of stale cigarette smoke will ever be known? In that day God will have a limitless universe where no chemical poison can exist. The golden streets will never know the litter of beer cans and tobacco butts. Defiling the body, defiling the air, and defiling the street will be unknown in God's royal capital city.

The sweetest delight of heaven will be to see Jesus face to face and to live with Him throughout eternity. What a prospect! To see the nail prints in His hands, and to open our minds to His own divine instruction in the science of salvation.

Abraham will be there; Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Peter, and Paul will march inside the gates. When they are inside, will you be inside, too? We can make a reservation now if we so desire.
http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=644

VIDEO: IS HEAVEN FOR REAL?
WATCH: http://www.isheaven4real.com/
(Double-click in the window for full-screen!)

 

[LA-girl]

"REPOST" OF THE LAST PAGE, PAGE 16 OF THE R.D.THREAD!

jinxed

LoL! Nice pictures LA-girl hehehe. This post really made me laugh for
some reason lol what a joke.
And this thread always comes back up doesn't it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quixote

LA-girl wrote:
Will the righteous sit on clouds out there in space, playing harps and singing hallelujah choruses all during eternity?

Don't know about you, but I certainly will.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


jinxed

And I sure will! ...that's if I go to heaven

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LA-girl

First of all: Jinxed, I hope it was some of the pics you found funny :wink: and not the info, cause believe it or not this is what the Bible says heaven will be like! Sounds pretty cool to me! :mrgreen:

Quixote wrote:

LA-girl wrote:
Will the righteous sit on clouds out there in space, playing harps and singing hallelujah choruses all during eternity?

Don't know about you, but I certainly will.

Well if I should be so lucky that God will say yes, "LA-girl" you can enter my gates then NO WAY!!! I would rather travel through universe and visit other planets and unfallen civilizations while singing with my own voice. (Given that God gives me a voice-upgrade that is! :lol: )

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jinxed

Hi LA-girl, Yes it was the pics I found funny. I didn't really read the info,
or hardly. I just scrolled down the whole thing quickly and saw Friends
and thought, "What is that about?" or why is that there? And then I
went down and up and saw the other pictures as well, each one, and
they were just funny, like Superman? And the relaxed, friendly looking,
giant lion w/ other kids and ppl lol just didn't go together.

Lions are always presented/imagined or give the impression as
aggressive and ready to kill. It's too calm to be true in that photo lol.
I guess the post probably wasn't supposed to be a joke though, or was
it?

And also, I meant "I will as well" about the singing hallelulah etc in
heaven, as in I will but not in All eternity. I realized it said in All and
doing nothing else...I will also like to do other things as well of course,
not just that All day long, although at first I thought it was saying All
such as All of us doing that Together, not All as in everyday, second,
hour/minute.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quixote

Well if I should be so lucky that God will say yes, "LA-girl" you can enter my gates then NO WAY!!!I would rather travel through universe and visit other planets and unfallen civilizations

Bah way too many people for my taste.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cLavain

LA-girl wrote:
Well if I should be so lucky that God will say yes

I can't read this sentence without thinking about Kylie Minogue...

 

[LA-girl]

ARE THE DEAD REALLY DEAD?

Death just might be one of the most misunderstood subjects today. But does it really matter what you believe? Yes... absolutely! Because what you believe about the dead will have a profound impact on what happens to you in the end-times. There's no room for guessing, so this article will give you exactly what God says on this subject. Get ready for a real eye-opener!

1. How did we get here in the first place?

Adam was created by God in the beginning.
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

Answer: God made us from dust in the beginning.

2. What happens when a person dies?

The spirits of both the righteous and the wicked return to God. Their bodies return to dust.
"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

Answer: The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies--whether righteous or wicked--returns to God at death.


3. What is the "spirit" that returns to God at death?

There is nothing mysterious about the spirit that returns to God at death. It is the breath of life.
"The body without the spirit ["breath," see margin] is dead." James 2:26. "The spirit of God ["the breath which God gave him," see margin] is in my nostrils." Job 27:3.

Answer: The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in all of God's book does the "spirit" have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the "breath of life" and nothing more.


4. What is a "soul"?

These four people are four souls.
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

Answer: A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God's Word teaches that we are souls.


5. Do souls die?

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:20. "Every living soul died in the sea." Revelation 16:3.

Answer: According to God's Word, souls do die! We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17). Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15, 16). The concept of an undying, immortal soul goes against the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.

6. Do good people go to heaven when they die?

"All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth." John 5:28, 29. "David ... is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day." "For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:29, 34. "If I wait, the grave is mine house." Job 17:13.

Answer: No, people do not go either to heaven or hell at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day. King David will be saved in God's kingdom. However, he is in his grave now, where he awaits the resurrection.


7. How much does one know or comprehend after death?

"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10. "The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.

Answer: God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!

8. But can't the dead communicate with the living, and aren't they aware of what the living are doing?

Though millions think it is possible, the dead cannot communicate with the living. "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." "His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them." Job 14:12, 21. "Neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:6.

Answer: No, the dead cannot contact the living, nor do they know what the living are doing. They are dead. Their thoughts have perished (Psalms 146:4).

9. Jesus called the unconscious state of the dead "sleep" in John 11:11-14. How long will they sleep?

Jesus calls death "sleep." It is a state of total unconsciousness.
"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more." Job 14:12. "The day of the Lord will come ... in the which the heavens shall pass away."
2 Peter 3:10.


Answer: The dead will sleep until the great day of the Lord at the end of the world. In death, humans are totally unconscious with no activity or knowledge of any kind.


10. What happens to the righteous dead at the second coming of Christ?

The righteous will be raised to life and given immortality at Jesus' second coming.
"Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12. "The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, ... and the dead in Christ shall rise ... and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17. "We shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, ... and the dead shall be raised incorruptible. ... For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 1 Corinthians 15:51-53.

Answer: They will be rewarded. They will be raised, given immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.


11. What was the devil's first lie?

The devil's first lie to Eve was "You won't die" - a statement completely contrary to all Scripture.
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die." Genesis 3:4. "That old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan." Revelation 12:9.

Answer: Satan told Eve that sin would not bring death. "Ye shall not surely die," he said.

12. Why did the devil lie to Eve about death? Could this subject be more important than many think?

Those who believe the dead are alive become easy targets for the devil's deceptions.

Answer: It is one of the cornerstones of the devil's kingdom. He has worked powerful miracles down through the ages through people who claim to receive their power from the spirits of the dead. (Examples: Magicians of Egypt--Exodus 7:11; Woman of Endor--1 Samuel 28:3-25; Sorcerers--Daniel 2:2; A certain damsel--Acts 16:16-18.)

A Solemn Warning!In the end-time Satan will again use sorcery--as he did in Daniel's day--to deceive the world (Revelation 18:23). Sorcery is a supernatural agency that claims to receive its power and wisdom from the spirits of the dead.

Posing as Jesus' Disciples!

Posing as godly loved ones who have died, saintly clergymen who are now dead, Bible prophets, or even the apostles or disciples of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13), Satan and his angels will deceive billions. Those who believe the dead are alive, in any form, will most assuredly be deceived. [/size]

13. Do devils really work miracles?

All miracle working is not from God, because devils also work miracles.
"They are the spirits of devils, working miracles." Revelation 16:14. "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24.


Answer: Yes, indeed! Devils work incredibly convincing miracles (Revelation 13:13, 14). Satan and his angels will appear as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and, even more shocking, as Christ Himself (Matthew 24:23, 24). The universal feeling will be that Christ and His angels are leading out in a fantastic worldwide revival. The entire emphasis will seem so spiritual and be so supernatural that only God's elect will not be deceived.

Satan's Invention

We learned in questions 11 and 12 that Satan invented the teaching that the dead are alive. Reincarnation, channeling, communication with spirits, spirit worship, and the "undying soul" are all inventions of Satan, with one aim--to convince people that when you die you are not really dead. When people believe that the dead are alive, "spirits of devils, working miracles" (Revelation 16:14) and posing as spirits of the dead will be able to deceive and lead them astray virtually 100 percent of the time (Matthew 24:24).

The Bible says in Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10: The dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun [in this life]. ... For there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave.


Samuels spirit a devil in disguise?http://www.socialphobiaworld.com/postp79002.html#79002

Source:
(Are the dead really dead? -Open lesson or Watch)

If you want to know more about this I would advise you to watch:
The Witch of Endor
Just click the title!

 

[LA-girl]

Ok, now I'm gonna move on to another controversial, not to mention relevant issue, these days.
It has to do with the conflict in the middle-east. The majority of all christians as far as I know hold on to the belief that the Jews are Gods holy people and that Israel are Gods holy land. This was of course true in the old testament, but is this really the case now in the new covenant? Many people will probably not agree with me in this, but this is after all a debate forum... :wink:

What is exactly Gods people and todays Israel according to the new covenant??

First of all, we need to find out if the present nation of Israel is the same Israel which is designated in the book of Revelation as the people of God. Some tremendous prophecies are found in that book, most of them concerned with saving the embattled remnant group of faithful followers of Jesus Christ. Those followers are sometimes referred to as the "tribes of Israel" and spoken of in the context of Jewish customs.

Does this mean that the literal nation of Israel - the one which is fighting with tanks and bombs - will completely reverse itself and become Christians? Will they lay aside their Zionist ambitions to kill their attackers and espouse the peaceful principles of the sermon on the mount - the one about loving the enemy and turning the other cheek?

Millions of Bible students believe that this kind of spectacular conversion must take place in order for Bible prophecy to be fulfilled. They base their belief upon the prophecies found in Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, etc., regarding Israel's restoration and final triumph. Are they correct? It is true that the prophets painted glowing word pictures of Israel's future and recorded scores of promises about her authority over other nations. But is the Israel of the Old Testament the same Israel of the book of Revelation? Were the promises unconditional and irrevocable? Will the literal, fleshly descendants of Abraham turn en masse to the Messiah, be restored as a nation, and saved as a people?



Jesus had explained to the Jewish leaders in the clearest possible language that their rejection of Him would seal their own rejection as the children of the kingdom. "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the the fruits thereof." Matthew 21:43.

There is no mystery as to why the hundreds of specific Old Testament promises were never fulfilled to Israel. They utterly failed to meet the conditions of obedience. Otherwise, they would have inherited the earth, been delivered from all their enemies, and made Jerusalem the worship center for all nations.

The big question is this: Will God's promises fail just because the literal descendants of Abraham did not meet the terms of the covenant? Were the promises transferred to that other "nation" to whom Jesus said the kingdom would be given?

Peter describes those "which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God" in these words: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." 1 Peter 2:9, 10. Here is the new nation which replaces the nation of Israel. The Gentiles who will receive the true Messiah now enter into the New Covenant, ratified by the blood of the cross, and become the true spiritual Israel of God. They who were not God's people become His "holy nation."

The Bible says that they are counted as the actual seed of Abraham. "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29. Paul makes it even clearer in Romans 9:8. "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Again, Paul wrote, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart." Romans 2:28, 29.

Notice that true Israel will be characterized by circumcision of the heart and not of the flesh. What is heart circumcision? "Ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ." Colossians 2:11. Don't miss the significance of that text. Just as the Old Covenant was represented by the cutting off of the physical flesh, so the New Covenant would be exemplied by the cutting off of the fleshly nature of sin.

In other words, all who accept Christ and are born again are the truly circumcised and the only true Jews. And according to Paul they also will inherit the promises made to Abraham.

Some have felt confused because much of the Old Testament terminology is carried over into the New Testament description of the church - words like kingdom, nation, Israel, temple, Jerusalem, Zion, tribes of Israel, etc. Even Christ said to the Pharisees, "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (literal Israel) and given to a nation (spiritual Israel) bringing forth the fruits thereof." Matthew 21:43. This is one reason the futurists and dispensationalists believe the book of Revelation pertains to the literal Jew in modern Israel. But there is no cause for such confusion. The explanation had been so clearly made in so many places that the New Testament writer assumed all were aware that the church now replaced national Israel.

Read the full article here:

 

[LA-girl]

I found this explanation of what the Bible teaches about fate and predestination:

Predestination and Human Freedom.

The Bible reveals God's full control over the world. He "predestined" people "to be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom. 8:29, 30), to be adopted as His children, and to obtain an inheritance (Eph. 1:4, 5, 11). What does such sovereignty imply for human freedom?

The verb to predestinate means "to determine beforehand." Some assume these passages teach that God arbitrarily elects some to salvation and others to damnation, irrespective of their own choice. But study of the context of these passages shows that Paul does not speak about God's capriciously excluding anyone.

The thrust of these texts is inclusive. The Bible clearly states that God "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4). He is "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). There is no evidence that God has decreed that some persons should be lost; such a decree would deny Calvary, where Jesus died for everyone. The whoever in the text, "'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life'" (John 3:16), means that anyone can be saved.

"That man's free will is the determining factor in his personal destiny is evident from the fact that God continually presents the results of obedience and disobedience, and urges the sinner to choose obedience and life (Deut. 30:19; Joshua 24:15; Isa.1:16, 20; Rev. 22:17); and from the fact that it is possible for the believer, having once been a recipient of grace, to fall away and be lost (1 Cor. 9:27; Gal. 5:4; Heb. 6:4-6; 10:29). . . .

God may foresee each individual choice that will be made, but His foreknowledge does not determine what that choice shall be. . . . Bible predestination consists in the effective purpose of God that all who choose to believe in Christ shall be saved (John 1:12; Eph.1:4-10)" 4

Then what does Scripture mean when it says that God loved Jacob and hated Esau (Rom. 9:13) and that He hardened Pharaoh's heart (vv. 17, 18; cf. vv. 15, 16; Ex. 9:16; 4:21)? The context of these texts shows that Paul's concern is mission and not salvation. Redemption is available to anyone—but God chooses certain persons for special assignments. Salvation was equally available to Jacob and Esau, but God chose Jacob, not Esau, to be the line through whom He would take the message of salvation to the world. God exercises sovereignty in His mission strategy.

When Scripture says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart it is merely crediting Him with doing what He allows, and not implying that He ordains it. Pharaoh's negative response to God's call actually illustrates God's respect for his freedom to choose.

Foreknowledge and Human Freedom.

Some believe that God relates to persons without knowing their choices until they are made; that God knows certain future events, such as the Second Advent, the millennium, and the restoration of the earth, but has no idea who will be saved. They feel that God's dynamic relationship with the human race would be in jeopardy if He knew everything that would transpire from eternity to eternity. Some suggest that He would be bored if He knew the end from the beginning.

But God's knowledge about what individuals will do does not interfere with what they actually choose to do any more than a historian's knowledge of what people did in the past interferes with their actions. Just as a camera records a scene but does not change it, foreknowledge looks into the future without altering it.

The foreknowledge of the Godhead never violates human freedom!.

Source: http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-02.htm