Change Your Self Worth

[Phobologist]

Hi everyone, social anxiety disorder is all about self-worth. All of our fears boil down to the persistent worry that other people will confirm our existing, self-depricating beliefs, leaving us feeling worthless and perhaps suicidal. These fears usually have either of the following two forms:

1. [I am ____ ] ---> [ ____ people are unloveable] ---> [I am unloveable] ---> [I am worthless]

2. [I am ____ ] ---> [ ____ people are bad] ---> [I am bad] ---> [I am worthless]

The property we believe we have could be: defective, stupid, ugly, foolish, or anything else. No matter what the case, you can plainly see that the problem arises from three parts of the equation (1) believing you are _____ (2) believing that ______ people are bad or unloveable, (3) concluding that people who are bad or unloveable are worthless. I think working backwards is the best way to solve our problem. After all, if we don't fear being worthless, the entire anxiety disorder crumbles into dust.

So then, given the forbidding nature of this task, I would like to pool our resources to figure out how we can base our self-esteem on something other than being loveable, or being good. I have no clue how to do this, and honestly the attempt scares the shit out of me because I worry its not possible. But I have read that it can be done. Let's try.

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EDIT:

I now realize that the phobia has absolutely nothing to do directly with other people. The above model is incorrect. People with social phobias are afraid they are worthless for a specific reason or set of reasons. They fear others because other people confirm their existing beliefs. They also fear situations not involving others where their fears are confirmed. It has nothing PARTICULARLY to do with Social Situations, and everything to do with the phobic's self-valuation. THAT'S THE KEY. Here is the correct model:


[I am ____ ] ---> [the consequence of _____ is _____] ---> [____ people are worthless] ---> [I am worthless] ---> [other people Know I am worthless] ---> (social anxiety)

 

[Kanon]

I agree with what you say, but I think the problem may be rooted way deeper than just changing self evaluation. Despite the fact that most of us are living in industrialized cultures (where individualism is favored) a lot of identity is based on how majority culture interprets it. For example, in US culture, introversion is looked down upon to some degree and extroversion is prized in majority of jobs, social outlets, relationships, etc. if you do not fit the norm, other people tend to start thinking something may be wrong with you before you think something is wrong with yourself. An example, as a kid, I used to stay inside and read during recess and my teacher one day out of the blue suggested to my mother that I was too quiet and didn't seem to "have fun" like the other kids even though I was perfectly fine the way I was. Then I start to think, is it weird to stay inside and read than to play outside with the other kids? ->>> am i weird?

not to blame it all on culture, but before a lot of extremities to our conditions develop: peer, parent/family, cultural evaluation have a large influence in where our self worth goes. for example: i could say i'm smart, socially accepted, physically attractive, hard working, a good marriage candidate, and a great friend, but if i were to get negative feedback from my instructors, looked down upon by my peers, ugly according to societies current look, undesirable by employers, never been in an intimate relationship, and acquaintances prefer going to others before me... well, my self evaluation couldn't be justified.

i don't mean to be a downer. >_< but that is kind of the way it is.

 

[Jake123]

I agree with what you say, but I think the problem may be rooted way deeper than just changing self evaluation. Despite the fact that most of us are living in industrialized cultures (where individualism is favored) a lot of identity is based on how majority culture interprets it. For example, in US culture, introversion is looked down upon to some degree and extroversion is prized in majority of jobs, social outlets, relationships, etc. if you do not fit the norm, other people tend to start thinking something may be wrong with you before you think something is wrong with yourself. An example, as a kid, I used to stay inside and read during recess and my teacher one day out of the blue suggested to my mother that I was too quiet and didn't seem to "have fun" like the other kids even though I was perfectly fine the way I was. Then I start to think, is it weird to stay inside and read than to play outside with the other kids? ->>> am i weird?

not to blame it all on culture, but before a lot of extremities to our conditions develop: peer, parent/family, cultural evaluation have a large influence in where our self worth goes. for example: i could say i'm smart, socially accepted, physically attractive, hard working, a good marriage candidate, and a great friend, but if i were to get negative feedback from my instructors, looked down upon by my peers, ugly according to societies current look, undesirable by employers, never been in an intimate relationship, and acquaintances prefer going to others before me... well, my self evaluation couldn't be justified.

i don't mean to be a downer. >_< but that is kind of the way it is.

Yeah honestly what you think of yourself means nothing if everyone else around you still thinks negatively.

 

[Exposure]

Hi Phobo , i actually have the answer for your question but it wont apply to everyone , basically we have been taught by this world that we get our self-worth by what people think about us and what we have in life (job,house...) but i believe we get our self-worth from God , and that God always thinks we are worthy , 100% no matter where we are in life , i think people have forgotten this , i have a really good piece on this from a great book called "the search for significance" , its all about seeing your true worth through Gods eyes , but it only applys to people who have a belief in God i guess , Robbie

 

[Flo]

i agree w/ all the above posts, but again...what's the solution? do we continue to allow society to dictate our own individual worth? or when do we start to take control of how we feel about ourselves and stop allowing others to tell us what is "good" or "bad" about ourselves... i know its so much easier said than done b/c everyday i look at TV or read magazines and see images that are supposed to be beautiful and successful and none of them look or act like me... but i feel as though if i had come to this conclusion alot sooner in life (maybe if my parents had encouraged me as a child to follow my own path and not be "like everyone else"), i would have had alot more confidence and self-worth and self-value...

 

[Noca]

I'm worth about as much as a roll of toliet paper in the bargin blowout isle of Walmart.

 

[MadHatter]

I'm worth about as much as a roll of toliet paper in the bargin blowout isle of Walmart.

And they keep rollin' back their prices...

 

[Noca]

And they keep rollin' back their prices...

hahaha yeah

 

[ApRiLGeTsAngry77]

I'm worth about as much as a roll of toliet paper in the bargin blowout isle of Walmart.

You are worth the world to me.



All humans have worth.

 

[Phobologist]

...i could say i'm smart, socially accepted, physically attractive, hard working, a good marriage candidate, and a great friend, but if i were to get negative feedback from my instructors, looked down upon by my peers, ugly according to societies current look, undesirable by employers, never been in an intimate relationship, and acquaintances prefer going to others before me... well, my self evaluation couldn't be justified.

i don't mean to be a downer. >_< but that is kind of the way it is.

You are right it could not be justified because you have built it on the reactions of other people. Let's take another look at your so-called, "Self-Evaluation". You believe..."I am a worthy person because..."

1. Others think I am smart.
2. Others think I am attractive.
3. Others accept me and like being around me.
4. Others consider me acceptable as a friend.
5. Others accept me as a lover/marriage partner.
6. Others would like to hire me.

Where is the "Self" in your self-evaluation? This is what I am talking about. YOu dont value yourself at all. You feel you are worthless and depend on other people to buttress your self-esteem by disconfirming your belief. Other people are not like you, in that they actually feel they are worthy human beings regardless of what their peers and employers think. Yes, their self esteem may take a hard blow if they receive persistent negative feedback from the world, but unlike you and I, its doubtfull they will be entirely crushed.

 

[Phobologist]

Yeah honestly what you think of yourself means nothing if everyone else around you still thinks negatively.

Actually it means everything, and THAT is the reason you have a social phobia. Normal people dont think like you and I. They have at least some self-worth even if they are hated by the world. They therefore do not have a phobia of rejection by others. ::

 

[Phobologist]

Hi Phobo , i actually have the answer for your question but it wont apply to everyone , basically we have been taught by this world that we get our self-worth by what people think about us and what we have in life (job,house...) but i believe we get our self-worth from God , and that God always thinks we are worthy , 100% no matter where we are in life , i think people have forgotten this , i have a really good piece on this from a great book called "the search for significance" , its all about seeing your true worth through Gods eyes , but it only applys to people who have a belief in God i guess , Robbie

Hi Robbie, well I don't believe in god so it wouldn't work for me, but if it works for you then that's fantastic. Do you still have a social phobia then?

 

[Phobologist]

I can't speak for the person you are responding to because I do not know them but you are right. We do validate ourselves based on other people's evaluation, perception, and opinions of us.

That's right, and it needs to stop or we won't ever get better.

 

[Kanon]

You are right it could not be justified because you have built it on the reactions of other people. Let's take another look at your so-called, "Self-Evaluation". You believe..."I am a worthy person because..."

1. Others think I am smart.
2. Others think I am attractive.
3. Others accept me and like being around me.
4. Others consider me acceptable as a friend.
5. Others accept me as a lover/marriage partner.
6. Others would like to hire me.

Where is the "Self" in your self-evaluation? This is what I am talking about. YOu dont value yourself at all. You feel you are worthless and depend on other people to buttress your self-esteem by disconfirming your belief. Other people are not like you, in that they actually feel they are worthy human beings regardless of what their peers and employers think. Yes, their self esteem may take a hard blow if they receive persistent negative feedback from the world, but unlike you and I, its doubtfull they will be entirely crushed.

(the second half of the above was used for example, and just a side note, i hope i didn't sound like a jerk in the above post. >_< i was not intending to be offensive in anyway).
What I am trying to say is how do I prove I am "smart, attractive, socially accepted, desirable by employers, etc."? And saying that I do believe I am these things, what good does this do for me if these things cannot be justified by anyone other than myself? As an example, I can write a paper for an English class thinking "I did an awesome job on this assignment," but my instructor's opinion is a failing grade, what does that say about my opinion? If I believe I have a lot of great qualities as a human being and a lot to offer for a relationship, but potential friends and/or dates do not like what I have to offer, then what does this say about who I am? My examples are based on identity being formed before receiving feedback from everyone else.

Also you mentioned that other people are not like us, which I agree with. Even though they receive negative feedback on certain characteristics, more than likely a majority of their characteristics are in line with majority culture. Either that or more than likely they are fooling themselves and ignoring the reality; sticking to a false identity (facade) which may catch up to them later in life.

Then there is the idea of changing characteristics. Going back to the English paper again: say the instructor allows me to resubmit the paper after he has graded it, with expectations that I will rewrite the paper with his own ideas. Should I change what I thought was great to match my instructor's idea of great? Obviously if I want a good mark the second time around, I have to adopt my instructor's ideas of what is right and drop my own. Using my personal example from the earlier reply, if I wanted to be like the "other kids" I would have to change what I thought was normal to be accepted as a normal kid by my teacher.

I guess what I am trying to say in general is that we can see ourselves any way we want, but our worth means very little until the external environment accepts what we see in ourselves.

 

[Kanon]

Actually it means everything, and THAT is the reason you have a social phobia. Normal people dont think like you and I. They have at least some self-worth even if they are hated by the world. They therefore do not have a phobia of rejection by others. ::

sorry i don't mean to call you out or anything, but I'm not sure if I can entirely agree with this statement.

A pedophile can think he is normal, but if society doesn't, society will lock the pedophile up if he has sexual relations with a child. Society rejects his actions even though he acted on what he personally believed. Even if his self-worth wasn't damaged, society does not have a favorable view on him and now he is marked (can't get certain jobs, has to notify everyone that he is a sex offender, etc.) unless society changes their opinion about pedophiles.

 

[limetree]

"I guess what I am trying to say in general is that we can see ourselves any way we want, but our worth means very little until the external environment accepts what we see in ourselves."

Unless you are being severely oppressed, I disagree, there are always ways around it. Major social and political revolutions have resulted from standing up for what you believe in regardless of the current status quo. In the future, maybe people will come to believe your ideas, even after you die, but we seem to think things are pointless if they don't yield immediate results.

We think of playing the game as gaining social advantage even though we may not agree with the game. If you are content to opt out altogether and live in seclusion, lucky you, but until then you have to believe you aren't a slave to it, and actually have a contribution to make by going against the grain.

Is it always about compromising integrity? Maybe not, I hate small talk, but I need to learn it in order to make closer friends. I hate work, I want to work to survive, it doesn't mean I can't find nonconformist friends who like to question social structures and support those who have the guts to say/do something about it, while complying to a certain degree as a means to paying for internet connection and continuing the exertion of some minute influence.

Wouldn't you rather be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not? Sounds like you're disheartened about the lack of like minded folks, don't think for a second you are alone. Reality is all in our heads, people have SA in introverted cultures too. Should we feel bad that we don't look like airbrushed models, or our brains aren't wired with a preference for extraversion? I agree that it would be easier to manage SA if everyone understood and accepted as normal, but we have to reach out and educate ignorant people instead of feeling indignant that they can't read our minds.

You are not your social phobia. We may feel like we're betraying ourselves by developing the traits we least identify with (social skills), but to an extent we do want to adapt and find that balance- with the confidence to express our individuality. Express, not conform. The ancient wisdom is true; be yourself and the right people will be attracted to you: Give and you will receive, but don't give just in order to receive or you will never be free. Of course easier said than done but it's important to acknowledge that "no one else can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Here we are, resenting the majority and do they give a shit about this? Their ideas aren't necessarily smarter, but they have greater self-esteem to advocate their views. Develop the confidence to speak up, and the only difference then may be your ideas are smarter.

 

[Kanon]

Unless you are being severely oppressed, I disagree, there are always ways around it. Major social and political revolutions have resulted from standing up for what you believe in regardless of the current status quo. In the future, maybe people will come to believe your ideas, even after you die, but we seem to think things are pointless if they don't yield immediate results.

We think of playing the game as gaining social advantage even though we may not agree with the game. If you are content to opt out altogether and live in seclusion, lucky you, but until then you have to believe you aren't a slave to it, and actually have a contribution to make by going against the grain.

Is it always about compromising integrity? Maybe not, I hate small talk, but I need to learn it in order to make closer friends. I hate work, I want to work to survive, it doesn't mean I can't find nonconformist friends who like to question social structures and support those who have the guts to say/do something about it, while complying to a certain degree as a means to paying for internet connection and continuing the exertion of some minute influence.

Wouldn't you rather be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not? Sounds like you're disheartened about the lack of like minded folks, don't think for a second you are alone. Reality is all in our heads, people have SA in introverted cultures too. Should we feel bad that we don't look like airbrushed models, or our brains aren't wired with a preference for extraversion? I agree that it would be easier to manage SA if everyone understood and accepted as normal, but we have to reach out and educate ignorant people instead of feeling indignant that they can't read our minds.

You are not your social phobia. We may feel like we're betraying ourselves by developing the traits we least identify with (social skills), but to an extent we do want to adapt and find that balance- with the confidence to express our individuality. Express, not conform. The ancient wisdom is true; be yourself and the right people will be attracted to you: Give and you will receive, but don't give just in order to receive or you will never be free. Of course easier said than done but it's important to acknowledge that "no one else can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Here we are, resenting the majority and do they give a shit about this? Their ideas aren't necessarily smarter, but they have greater self-esteem to advocate their views. Develop the confidence to speak up, and the only difference then may be your ideas are smarter.

In this I agree with all that you have to say here, but I think I'm being misunderstood. I am simply saying that self worth is not the only factor that holds back people with SA and that having low self-worth is not something always caused by first forming low opinions of ourselves. I don't believe people with SA are oppressed, but I do believe there is a degree of discrimination against those (not just people with SA) that do not meet the criteria for societies definition of "normal". Thank you for mentioning compromise. It was a topic I was going to touch on, but I ended up asking myself more questions than finding answers on that topic. I do believe we are to compromise to a degree, but to what extent? It is very difficult to compromise with a people that have no idea about SA and where we come from. If I try to compromise with a potential employer, even tell him right out that I have social anxiety, I am working very hard to build my character and strengthen my weaknesses and say, "At this time, I can handle X amount of social interactions before I need to call it a day" and the next guy he interviews has no such social problems will be seen as more productive (assuming all other job skills are equal). Now, this may not necessarily damage my own self-worth, but it lowers my idea of how I feel I am being viewed by society.

Again like I said in my first post, it is not all to blame on society, and it is not to blame all on ourselves for self-esteem issues. It is a cluster**** of both. We do need self-worth to be able to handle society, and society also contributes to how we evaluate ourselves, and our own self-worth.

(just a side note for future reference i guess, these examples and depictions are all hypothetical. the only example that was personal was noted in the earlier posts. also, all of these examples are not constants, meaning they do not happen every single time. also, i am in no way trying to offend anyone at all, and i hope i'm not. if something i write doesn't make sense, please tell me... i have way more questions than answers and obviously by no means an expert).

 

[Kanon]

I have no words to describe the huge amount of biased oxymoronic activity in this thread.

i hope this thread isn't getting too ridiculous. could you clarify what you mean?

 

[limetree]

I do believe we are to compromise to a degree, but to what extent? It is very difficult to compromise with a people that have no idea about SA and where we come from. If I try to compromise with a potential employer, even tell him right out that I have social anxiety, I am working very hard to build my character and strengthen my weaknesses and say, "At this time, I can handle X amount of social interactions before I need to call it a day" and the next guy he interviews has no such social problems will be seen as more productive (assuming all other job skills are equal). Now, this may not necessarily damage my own self-worth, but it lowers my idea of how I feel I am being viewed by society.

Oh okay, thanks for clarifying. Yes this is a legitimate concern, although I also think we should try not to feel powerless/defeated by it. Persistence is key, but I don't intend to come across too preachy since I am easily disheartened and currently avoiding the majority of society who don't understand.

There would be a minority of employers who encourage giving social phobics the opportunity to improve their social skills but it depends on the job and how high the stakes of the position is. What career prospects do you have that concern this? Perhaps it's good to set realistic goals about the type of work you'd be comfortable doing and then work your way up the more socially adept you become. Ironically I used to want to become a counsellor, but ever since my shyness has increased, I would prefer to do a course in librarianship in order to get used to dealing with people before re-evaluating whether I could handle counselling. I have a vision disability, so coupled with possible SA, my job options are significantly limited. If someone is not compassionate enough to understand, I really don't want to be working for them anyway. If they hire me on a demanding condition, that would make me even more uncomfortable. I understand that employers want the most competent person for the job and of course we have to try harder, life isn't fair, but I guess it's always going to be more or less fairer for others who have privileges in some areas and weaknesses in others. You can never see the complete picture when comparing yourself to others.

 

[Phobologist]

(the second half of the above was used for example, and just a side note, i hope i didn't sound like a jerk in the above post. >_< i was not intending to be offensive in anyway).

No worries mate!

If I believe I have a lot of great qualities as a human being and a lot to offer for a relationship, but potential friends and/or dates do not like what I have to offer, then what does this say about who I am? My examples are based on identity being formed before receiving feedback from everyone else.

It says that they don't like you for specific reasons. You may feel anxious. You may have poor social skills. You may say things which are extremely disturbing. What does it matter? I know..it sounds crazy, right? But think about it. The problem isn't that people don't like you, the problem is you NEED THEM to like YOURSELF. Others don't need YOU to like themselves, why do you NEED them? Self-Esteem is about what you think of yourself, not about having others validate your beliefs about yourself. If your self-esteem is really based on other's opinons, then it is not really self-esteem, because it depends on external events. ::

Also you mentioned that other people are not like us, which I agree with. Even though they receive negative feedback on certain characteristics, more than likely a majority of their characteristics are in line with majority culture. Either that or more than likely they are fooling themselves and ignoring the reality; sticking to a false identity (facade) which may catch up to them later in life.

This is a cop-out. It won't catch up to them later because they are not faking anything, they are being themselves. The only ones sticking to a "false identity" are us, and this is the reason people don't like hanging around with us.

Using my personal example from the earlier reply, if I wanted to be like the "other kids" I would have to change what I thought was normal to be accepted as a normal kid by my teacher.

That's the problem, we feel we need to "be like the other kids to be accepted". SO WHAT?! Be yourself and don't put on airs. People like you when you relax around them, but when you HATE YOURSELF entirely and its expressed in your anxious behavior, others are put off. The problem is with YOU and ME, not them. Listen, even the biggest douche-bag has at least one friend. There's allways another douche around. You don't have acceptance because you're scared and come accross weird, not because you're a douche. Even the colombine kids had each other, and you can't get creepier than them, can you?

I guess what I am trying to say in general is that we can see ourselves any way we want, but our worth means very little until the external environment accepts what we see in ourselves.

Not really, I'm going to have disagree there mate. Self-esteem doesn't have that much to do with what other's think, it has to do with what WE think. That's why it's called "self-esteem", instead of "esteem". We don't have any self esteem, and we need to get some. Put it this way, here's what another person's self-esteem might look like:

80% - Based on things unique to them.
20% - Based on what other's think.

And here is how you and I evaluate our "self-esteem"...

5% - Based on things unique to us.
95% - What other's think.

Can you see the root of the problem?