Is our fear as simple as this?

[charlieHungerford]

Before I start writing this I want to say that I know this is so far from the truth for how some people here suffer because I have read that people suffer very differently than me, but I wonder if some people can relate.

I read about fear last night and one thing I read was interesting, that if you want to overcome a fear desperately and are working hard at desensitising that fear and are just not making the progress you hope for, well maybe the fear is something else and even deeper than that. Whether you agree with that is another issue from what I wanted to say.

I was thinking about my biggest fear being public speaking, but a lot of other situations make me very anxious - speaking to girls unless I know them well, approaching people, walking into work past all the windows where people look out, in my car in traffic when there are cars adjacent and people are looking over, walking down a road where there is stationary traffic about, even in my car when the passenger is talking to me looking right at me, speaking one on one with people - although I have improved loads and loads it sometimes makes me uncomfortable, leaving the office for home time when its still busy as well as arriving at work when its busy, having to go into another office full of people and go ask for something, etc, etc. Not sure how many people can relate to such problems.

It just struck me, is the fear actually so simple? Forget what people are thinking - we don't know what people are thinking, but, I am wondering if my fear is actually just a fear of being looked at - i.e. a fear of when eyes are looking at me, rather than what people are thinking.
Take all my feared situations - especially speaking - people's eyes are on me, public speaking - all eyes are on me, and all the other fears are people looking at me.

I know some people may think this is just stupid and wrong, but I don't fear speaking, if I am by myself or on the phone or speaking with people I feel comfortable around then speaking is easy and fine. But for instance meeting a new person and they are looking right at me, it makes me uncomfortable and self conscious and the speaking because hard because I am anxious.
But also I find that when speaking to people I am far more comfortable if they are not looking right at me, i.e. if I go see someone about some work and they are looking at a computer screen or looking at some work instead of me, I am far far more confident.
I found I was in a small queue at the post office a couple of weeks ago and was fine at the back, no one behind me, and when it came to me almost at the front 4 people came in and joined the queue, and I just had this feeling of self consciousness because I knew everyone was looking right at me when at the front. I didn't fear asking about sending my parcel or anything, I was just self conscious that all eyes were on me.
And then I was thinking if in public speaking we were all in small booths where no one can see each other but had to speak, I would feel fine and would be able to do it. So the fear does appear to be being looked at.

I just don't think I will ever overcome my fear of public speaking and all those situations I mention which I feel uncomfortable in/anxious whilst I feel so uncomfortable when eyes are on me. If I got to the point where I was no longer afraid of eyes being on me, would I be anxious in these situations?

I kind of think that I have linked people looking at me and situations where eyes are on me with me being hurt - i.e. in the past when people looked at me they were horrible about what they saw in terms of my appearance. I don't have any hang ups about my personality, I would even say that anyone who knows me as a person could not say a bad thing about me as a person. So like I say, I know a lot of people will not be able to relate to this, we all suffer differently, I know a lot of people do not have a problem being looked at, but for myself and being ridiculed so much when people looked at me. I know you may be thinking this is just a fear of being judged negatively, but I think its different - i.e. I have no control over what people are thinking and don't even know what people are thinking, so it makes no sense to fear what people are thinking. What people think has no impact on my life. But a fear of eyes looking at me is an actual real event.

Again to repeat - I know loads of people will not relate to this, but if you can relate to how I feel in terms of my feared situations and that I have a lot of confidence in my personality (I wouldn't change my personality for anyone elses) for example, then please let me know what you think.

 

[moodygoo]

Well personally being looked at isn't my only problem, which you're not trying to say, but its a big one. Previous experiences aside eye contact and being looked at is stressfull. I remember seeing an experiment on tv where they compared people trying to answer questions when being watched and when not being watched and you can guess which one was more difficult. And unfortunately some people find it more difficult that others.

I'm not sure what you can do in terms of conquering it other than taking things step by step. And it sounds like you're battling on and not hiding away from things which is great. Is there any kind of satisfaction in pinpointing the problem?

 

[charlieHungerford]

Hi thanks for your reply.

That was really interesting about the tests when someone was watching and when someone wasn't. People say that on gameshows as well that at home its so easy but when at the centre of attention its so hard. But I think if you have experienced a lot of negative feedback when eyes have been looking at you, you do feel threatened when eyes are on you.

Well, if the problem is that I fear being looked at - eyes on me, well I think it will be quite easy to conquer, I think a matter of days. i.e. just need to look at it differently - instead of being scared and attaching so many negative beliefs, thoughts and fears of eyes looking at me, I will think of eyes as being something different - looking at eyes as a non critical thing, if that makes sense. I must believe that when eyes are on me its scary and dangerous. It just requires changing the way I see and feel when eyes are looking at me - as being non threatening.

I think its absolutely vital that everyone pinpoints the core problem behind their fears, because if you do not address that then you cannot change what is causing the problems. I don't think with any fear whether its flying on a plane, spiders, etc that you can overcome the fear unless you get to the bottom of it and desensitise what is causing you to react in the anxious and fearful way that one does.
I think if one does feel very uncomfortable when eyes are on themselves, then this is something that could really be worked at and you could feel so much better by just working on changing your beliefs of what it means to have people looking at you.

I must say that I can only speak for how I see my own problem, others may well disagree and that I can understand, we all suffer differently.

 

[moodygoo]

I can see where you're coming from but don't completely agree. Its a lot better to know what you're afraid and know what it is you're trying to overcome but knowing that doesn't necessarily make it easy.
For instance I know that when someones making eye contact theres not actually a threat and the reasons why theres no threat but that can't completely stop the way I react to it. Its like pain. The only reason we feel pain is our bodies are telling us something is wrong and we need to do something about it. But just telling yourself you know why it hurts and theres no threat wont stop it hurting.

Its still a step in the right direction, but not, at least not for me anyway, the end of all problems. I hope you do find the solution in this.

 

[charlieHungerford]

Hmmm, well I think we will have to agree to disagree, but that is not to say either is wrong.

I mean your example about pain - well pain is as a result of being hurt so tyou will feel a sensation of hurt. But as for feeling uncomfortable about being looked at well in theory you are right you know you are in no danger, but are you? I mean for myself I have linked being looked at with being hurt - i.e. people looking at me and being critical of me. For instance people looking at me in the past and then criticising my appearance or saying something negative me - the reason its so uncomfortable is because the mind sees it as a threat to being hurt. Which means that the subconscious mind sees being looked at as a threat. But if you can start looking at this in a different way - such as people looking at you is not a critical thing, its more of an attentive thing, its polite to look at someone when they are speaking and that people can see how nice and cool you are, instead of feeling its so negative and
people will find fault and may ridicule you, etc.

Its just I never used to fear being looked at until my years at high school when I got really self conscious. Would I ever have feared eyes on me if no one had ever ridiculed me or been so horrible to me on a daily basis in my teenage years? I don't think so!

But like I say, I totally understand if this is not right for others, some people feel fine being looked at.

 

[skins]

...

 

[random]

I am updating this post because it is so long. Here is the short version which can save alot of time and ennui.
Part of my fear of public speaking is due to the fact that I kind of grew up believing I was 'invalid' (people around me told me I usually had the wrong thoughts, feelings, I didn't understand, wasn't understanding obvious things etc.) and speaking to someone, being looked at - makes me afraid they will notice that. In other words - I don't trust myself and I don't want others to notice.

Charlie,
I think I relate quite a bit to what you have written. I am afraid of being looked at and there is an assumption in my mind that to be looked at is to be criticized.
I think in the past year I have realized some of the 'freight' attached to being looked at. I do recall my mother saying I was 'tender hearted' and in recent years 3 psychologists have commented that I seem 'sensitive'. THinking about these comments kind of realized that in my home environment - I was particularly sensitive and my family just needed to glance at me to see when I was upset or frightened and they would object to these feelings (Nothing is wrong! YOu are not being be mistreated so WHY do you act scared etc.) I tried to learn to conceal my feelings but I never got good at it. My mother often meant well but - she was controlling (not to suggest that I don't have problems of my own). SHe would wonder why I was withdrawn and depressed. If she asked me and I said "My sister hates me" or "Dad doesn't love me" this would 'worry' my mother and she would begin to try to 'fix' things ("You sister doesn't hate you! WHY would you say that about her?! That is a terrible thing for you to say about her" meanwhile my sister TREATED me like she hated me) or ("WHY do you think your father doesn't love you??!!! He cares so much and he works so hard - you should be glad he loves you so much...How sad he would be if he heard you say that.." but my father's drinking (alcoholic) and emotional issues (narcissism and manic depressive) claimed his attention and he wasn't very interested in us). I learned that I had to hide my facial expression if I didn't want to get into a losing cycle (family asking me to deny reality and 'worrying' or criticizing if I didn't). I learned that I always had the 'wrong' feelings (feelings that made others feel bad) so I stopped telling people what those feelings were - but they often decided what I was feeling based my facial expression. Much of my self esteem issues seem to be based on so very muich of what I thought and felt being declared wrong, selfish, cowardly etc. To be looked at - in this way - is to be vulnerable.
My chief defense against my sister's rage/hate was pretend that her punches, kicks, etc. did not hurt. Her insults and cruel words also 'shouldn't hurt' or she would do it more often. So very much of my environment was based on looking at me facial expression or posture ("Don't slouch! It makes you look like you aren't confident!") or "What!??? DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM? YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING I SAID!!!???" I have a pretty good poker face by now but many can still see through it and I'm often not sure if I am dealing with someone who can and how they will react. So - around people in general now - I am more comfortable (in control, protected) on the phone or other situations when I am not being looked at. I need to develop 'normal' boundaries around people so that I can feel comfortable. (ability to put an end to manipulation whether or not the other person objects to my feelings, thoughts or wants to 'help' me by correcting me)
Also - my sister found that is was very effective to verbally abuse me before asking about decisions to be made - the pscholgical pressure would then make me hesitant, stuttering, etc. at which point she would start saying how stupid I was, why couldn't I think etc. so that I would back down and let her have her way - let her make decisions for both of us. My self esteem has become a handle that other people can tow me around by - and it starts with vulnerability, fear etc. that shows in my face if I am looked at.
SO all this is an issue before we get to the part that, despite the fact that I'm a girl, I forgot to be pretty. Really - if some one had just told me that I needed to be pretty I SWEAR I would have tried to get better genes...........really I would have............

 

[charlieHungerford]

Skins - wow you sound like you suffer in a very similar way to me, I am really glad that there is someone who can relate very much to what I say, it shows how varied SA is because its so understandable that people don't quite relate.

I asked myself the question when thinking about this and that was: How do I feel when eyes are on me and I'm being looked at? Quite simply I get self conscious and I really do feel that when eyes are on me that its like the spotlight is on me and I am a new show, not the X factor but the 'Crap Factor'. I feel when people look at me it can only be for negative reasons, it makes me so uncomfortable and it does cause me a lot of anxiety. But that does fit in with beliefs I have such as people always see the worst in me, I believe people are so judgemental and critical, no woman could ever be interested in me, I have believed people see me as the walking freak show. That has not come from my beliefs but the way I have been treated and experienced. I was also thinking that with friends and family I am so confident and friendly and funny, and when writing emails or on webchats with people I am fine and confident and know I am good at conversing with people like that, I have no anxiety at all about what to say, yet when it comes to speaking when being looked at, the self consciousness and anxiety caused by being looked at, that triggers my anxiety cycle and for instance I will feel anxious and that will trigger my fear of speaking, because when I get very anxious I know I find it hard to speak fluently. I don't fear speaking, I just fear the attention, all eyes on me and it is starting to make sense that eyes trigger my fear.

I did wonder however, how come I am more comfortable with eyes of people I am comfortable around like friends, family, close work colleagues. And I think its the brain's recognition that these people are not a danger, they are not going to be thinking bad of me, but still I can find it uncomfortable when they are looking at me, a clear fear of eyes looking at me.
I just think that if I no longer fear being looked at and when eyes are on me I can feel comfortable and no danger, I don't really see how I can be anxious any more around people.

I do agree with your skins that I too have that same percentage of my fears, I have in the past taken insults hard, but that I have been working on a lot of late, understanding that some people are like that - some people are insensitive, shallow, pathetic - with a billion or so people on the planet, you will get people like that, but you have to take what they say into context. One insult aimed at a flaw is not a true reflection of us as a whole. We all have flaws and that person could target anyone, but you have to understand that when a person insults you, its them with the problem. I often think how would I like to react and I love it when people react in a really cool way rather than get upset because I feel a cool reaction makes people really admire you and a flaw is always only a problem if you believe its a problem. I have seen confident people who have flaws in their appearance for example, yet because they act like there is no problem and they are so confident in themselves I do believe its overlooked.

I do think there requires a bit more to this. Too much focus is going on ourselves, we seem to believe we are centre of everyone's attention, and the fact is we really are not. If you are on a training course and we have to do public speaking, to everyone else we are just another person. When we watch people doing it we place none of the importance and focus that we do on ourselves. We are not on another planet of aliens and the only human there, there are a billion of us, we are just another brick in the wall.

I went to the supermarket this morning, there must have been a hundred people at least in there, but to be honest I cannot remember anyone from the supermarket, I didn't even look at anyone, I just had a shopping list which I was making sure I got everyone. I seem to think that in situations around people that I am the main attraction, everyone is going to be looking and judging me. I don't do that to anyone unless its someone who really catches my attention for positive reasons. I mean here is me, have no social life any more, am single, I live by myself, I do have friends but I don't see them often as they don't live locally, but what I am trying to say is - no one gives a monkey's toss about me, I really do need to work on changing beliefs that everything I do is being judged and people are aware, because that too is a problem, believing that eyes are going to be on me, when they are not.

Anyway, the fear of being looked at, I think this can be beaten in a short period of time, I am going to attempt to beat it this weekend. Its got to be about changing the way we see eyes. Looking into your own eyes in a mirror will not lead to success because you are not changing your beliefs about eyes and being looked at - you are just trying to become more comfortable but maintaining the same beliefs, and anyway, you know your eyes are not going to be critical of you.
If you brainstormed answers to the question 'What do you think of, when eyes are looking at you?' - you will see you have attached very negative labels on to this. Your mind sees eyes as something very threatening and scary, that people are looking purely for negative reasons, that you feel you are under a spot light, that everything you are doing is being judged, that people can see all your flaws, that people may ridicule you or be thinking nasty things of you.

I think all of these answers that I brainstorm and if you were to brainstorm, they all need analysing and putting into context. You have to do this by not only looking at yourself in these situations but how you see others and how you believe others see others.
I think its important to understand these beliefs are wrong and we think that way because of past negative experiences. I also think that it would be good to see if we can identify where all this started. For example, I know when I was 11 years old that I was so confident and didn't fear anything, didn't fear being looked at, didn't fear people or situations. Maybe it would be a good idea to track how this started and developed and understand that these are all flawed experiences that really are in the past now.

But I think what is important is to change the way we see eyes of people. I am not sure yet what is the best way, but for instance if I saw eyes as just circles on people's faces and that there is nothing more fearful about eyes than someone drawing on a circle on their face and just kept thinking that they are nothing, then I think you would start feeling less threatened when eyes are on you. It may sound silly, but eyes have to be seen as something non threatening and if all eyes are on you, you have to feel non threatened and not self conscious. They are only eyes. People don't think with their eyes! You and I have to become comfortable when being looked at in order to overcome this.

Let me know if you have any thoughts on this or if you think I have things wrong at all.

I will let you know how I get on with working on desensitising this.

 

[charlieHungerford]

Oh wow, I have been working on this for an hour and things are unravelling now!

This will only be useful to anyone who can relate to my experiences and fears.

Basically I have been working through this and I realise why I feel everyone looks at me negatively. Briefly I was ridiculed loads in my school days - for looks and speech impediment specifically - almost on a daily basis for at least 5 years and sporadically afterwards. These negative things I was ridiculed for made me so self conscious. It wasn't me who felt negative/bad about myself, it was others pointing out flaws and always critical of me, which made me so self conscious and I worried when people looked at me they would be critical of me. Basically I avoided people and situations where I would be centre of attention, believing when people see me I will be ridiculed, judged negatively, etc. But reacting that way made me believe I am in danger when people look at me, because they are going to slaughter me and hurt me with negative, critical, horrible comments.
I have put all this into context recently that people that age were immature, I was immature, we have all changed, no one is like that these days (adults are not really like that). But also the other people who were horrible were complete brain dead tossers. They were just horrible, insensitive, pathetic people. All of the negatives that got me so self conscious does not matter. Also, I am a very different person - looks and personality and speech impediment has gone. Its time to forget the past!
So that is how it developed, but there is no longer any need to worry. But of course I still have this fear of being looked at. But this can now be overcome!

The fact is being looked at is nothing. People have to look to see where they are going, if you are in their line of sight they will look. When you are interacting and conversing people, of course people are looking at you - to be polite and attentive. I mean if you are talking to a group of people and everyone is looking away, that is rude. When you look at people it doesn't mean you are looking critically and analysing the person does it?
Take an example like at work, when you are talking with the person who sits opposite or next to you, when you are talking to them are you assessing them in terms of how they look and how they sound and analysing what they are saying? Well no, not at all, you are just chatting to them, and its the same for them.
I have always been so self conscious walking into an office and having to speak to someone, feeling they are all looking at me and thinking negative things of me. But when people walk into my office yes I may look as I hear the door has been opened, but I am only looking to see who has come in and to see if they are coming over to me or not. I am not looking to be critical and that I am assessing them. People look when you enter a room as they are curious, its not because they are being critical.

I brainstormed my beliefs of what I have thought for so many years when people look at me. I had points such as people will be looking at me and critical of me. They will see any flaws and judge me negatively for them. They may even ridicule me. I feel like I am under a spotlight and am being watched, judged and assessed. Basically I have developed totally negative beliefs that when people see me I am being judged negatively.
But I analysed all of these and realised they are so wrong as follows:
People will be critical of me when they see me - no, totally wrong. When I see people I notice people, but I am not looking at them critically. Take anyone on tv - do you ever look at people on tv and think critically of them? When you are in a shop do you notice anyone and think critically of them? When you are at work and talk to anyone are you being critical of them? When someone comes into your office at work or knocks on your door are you being critical of them? The truth is people are not being critical. When they see you they see you because you are in their line of vision or they are being attentive or they are looking because you are there, that's all. They are not looking because they are thinking critically of me/you.
They will see my flaws and judge me negatively: Wrong! We all have flaws, do you notice people who have flaws? I wrote down 6 random people at work, not just in my office but just people I often seem to see about work. I don't ever think negative things of them or look at their flaws. I actually notice positive qualities only. But when I see them I just notice them, I don't think critically.
People may ridicule me: Wrong! No adult ridicules another adult. Its just an immature, insensitive, nasty thing to do. And if anyone ever did ridicule someone when they are an adult, they would be a very unpopular person, they are not a person worth a second's thought.
I feel like I am under the spotlight: Wrong. Just because someone looks at you doesn't mean they are judging you or assessing you. People look to be attentive, to be seeing what is happening, because maybe you are where the action is (i.e. if you are speaking people are looking because you are where the action is). When your boss speaks or you watch the news or whatever, are you looking to be attentive or looking to assess and be critical of them?
There really is nothing to fear from being looked at. People are not looking at you critical. We are all unique.

Now think of situations where others see others. At work, interviews on tv, are people looking at the other one critically, people at checkouts, etc? Never! I thought about people at work who I see talk to each other or people coming into the office to speak to someone, no one ever is looking critically at the other person.

Well that is where I am up to so far. I have two more issues to look at - to look at stop focusing on myself and to see a different way of thinking when eyes are on me. I will keep reminding myself and understanding how my previous beliefs are wrong. There is simply nothing to fear when being looked at.

I know a lot of people will not be able to relate to this being their problem, but I am feeling so good here, I really am seeing that the reasons I have been so self conscious are so wrong! I feel I will definitely be feeling so much better now already, but I want to improve even more by seeing eyes as totally non threatening and not feeling self conscious and comfortable when all eyes are on me.

 

[random]

Thank you Charlie,
I found the detail and examples you offered very helpful. I will spend more time thinking about it. I will say that I agree with you 100% that normal people are not looking to shred others with ridicule and critique.