Help with ionto schedule please

[ukchick]

My daughter has been doing ionto since October last year.She has seen very little improvement in her hand sweating. She recently had 7 weekly sessions at our hospital using a glyco solution in the ionto trays,after the very first glyco session her hands were sweat-free for a week.
Since that time,she has had zero improvement. We continue to use glyco at home and do weekly sessions.
Can anyone please please suggest any ideas about using the ionto. She is very sensitive to the current and she can usually only tolerate around 5 ma,for 20 mins using an Idrostar machine. We used the Hidrex for months but again no improvement.
I've had another tearful morning before school and I really need any ideas.
We have used virtually every roll-on,lotion,sage tablets,ditropan and probanthine.
I had the same problem and opted for surgery when I was 16 but the comp sweating is horrible,so I'd never suggest that.
I would appreciate any help,thank you.

 

[Sprawling]

Since 5mAh is basically useless, Pulsed current sounds like the only other option. Anything under 15, basically has little possibility of working. She'd be able to handle way more current and basically not feel a thing. I've switched to pulsed current because my body developed very little tolerance to regular DC. I'm having some success or exactly the same success as with using non-pulsed DC. The most amazing part of the treatment is that can be totally painless. It all depends on what kind of mood my body is in that day. It's worth a try especially with using the glyco solution.

I have listed previously the machine I use which is relatively inexpensive here in the U.S. There is probably the equivalent in the UK.

Ultra-G, Digital Galvanic - High Voltage Stimulator - Allegro Medical Supplies

 

[ukchick]

Thanks but I know on the pulsed Hidrex she pretty much reached the same level..I do 10ma on my feet with the Idrostar and that keeps them under control.What about doing it for a longer time?

 

[HH]

Hi ukchick. Maybe try going back to basics and starting again might help. By this I mean do initial treatments without glyco.

Try something like two weeks of initial treatments- 10-15mins every day on a higher ma (I know your daughter doesn't like it higher then 5ma but I really think its not very effective if its at 5ma or below, try something like 8-9ma). Do these short treatments everyday for two weeks and then cut down the treatments to two per week, each treatment lasting about 30mins (again on 8-9ma). Carry on with this for a few months and see what the outcome is, add glyro if you then need to. Get your daughter to use a hand moisturiser everyday (or more) as this will help heal any small cuts etc on her hands which will make the treatments less painful.

I really think a slow and steady build up approach is best for ionto. This is the schedule I've stuck with and it seems to be a good approach. Also, the water quality plays a big part in the effectiveness of the treatments-hard water is a must if you can get your hands on it (no pun intended), luckily I live in a hard water area but if you're in a soft water area you may need to get some (just do some google research to find if you're in a hard or soft water area).

I hope this helps, I know how annoying and frustrating this condition is hence this detailed explanation to try and help your daughter. Any more questions just post them on here and I'll try and answer them best I can.

 

[hyp-hi]

My schedule is 15 minutes every other day at about 12-13ma and it seems to be effective. Is she feeling the sting all over at 5ma or is it just on cuts and peeled skin? If the skin is free of openings such as cuts, she may be able to go higher than 5ma without hurting too much.

 

[ukchick]

Thanks everyone,will try your ideas.
At around 5 ma she describes a burning,itching or stinging sensation.Even at 5 ma she sits there in tears as it's really unbearable for her,she has vasaline on cuts but rarely has cuts.
I'm determined to get it to work as I'd so much rather ionto than medication.
By the way,thinking about it,she is super sensitive to many things ie.face creams,make up etc. I wonder if that's why she finds the ionto so hard to do.

Thanks again,it means a lot to me for all your support.

 

[Amherst]

I'd have to second what Sprawling says. Out of curiosity, where are you in the UK? London, I hear, has notoriously soft water, and persons for whom iontophoresis has worked elsewhere suddenly find that it fails them in London.
You might go buy some mineral water and use that instead of tap water.

 

[Jezza]

Hmm...yeah I think you need to amp up the amperage.

I do treatments of 30 min that I try to do at least any other day to make the results acceptable, although to get really dry hands I have to do them daily...I use an Idromed 4 DC.

Maybe to have less pain, you could try using quite warm water. I use water that is so warm it's just below being uncomfortable heatwise. I find that it takes the sting out of the pain from the current and I speculate that it may help blood circulation.

Maybe (and I know I'm entering hot water here) it's also a little bit a case of toughing it out. I've done ionto with open wounds on my hands from an infection (possibly due to the HH in the 1st place) and it really hurt like hell, especially the 1st few minutes, but then the pain subsides a little...Also if I skip treatment for a few days I always notice the 1st time I start again it hurts more...I think you get used to it. I also used vaseline on wounds in the beginning but I didn't really think it worked. I don't know...maybe just let the cuts heal first and then amp it up. Wounds (even small cuts) do cause the pain level to increase a lot so maybe if the wounds are healed she can do 10-15mA.

 

[ukchick]

Thanks,I was also thinking about playing with the water temperature. Just to stress though,she doesn't have any cuts on her hands, she just finds it hard tolerating the burning,stinging and itching sensation.
Her birthday was yesterday so today we're gonna go for it...higher water temp and higher amp.

 

[ukchick]

So I used iced water today in the trays and my daughter got up to 8ma.
Fingers crossed please it will start working.

 

[hyp-hi]

I always use cold water. I find it more comfortable and easier on the skin.

 

[Sprawling]

Funny how we are all different. I use warm water so it opens up the skin pores. Cold water makes me tense up more. Whatever works.

 

[ukchick]

Warm water will be next on my list if this doesn't work.lol.
My daughter also uses an ice pack for back pain so I may use that on her back during treatment- anything to distract her so I can get to a higher level.

 

[Jezza]

Warm water will be next on my list if this doesn't work.lol.
My daughter also uses an ice pack for back pain so I may use that on her back during treatment- anything to distract her so I can get to a higher level.

Hmm...I also have pretty severe back pain that comes and goes sometimes. Lower back. I usually put it down to being rather tall (not humongous but still 6'3") and always leaning when I can instead of sitting up right. I read a few more posters have backpain (IIRC baller86 for instance).

I have thought on a few occassions that we or at least some of HH sufferers have ankylosing spondylitis. It's a condition that's often accompanied with sweating. Unortunately though, even if we do there's not much to do about it (I think it's usually treated with NSAIDs, aka non steroidal anti inflammatory drugs like indomethacin).

 

[Amherst]

Jezza,

I have wondered the same, since several members of my immediate family
have been diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis and have
the gene marker for it. My lower back pain started about the same time
as my excessive generalized sweating - just before I turned 41 (which
is extremely late for hyperidrosis). It seems that a certain percentage of those with AS also suffer from excessive generalized sweating, and one wonders whether AS, or an immune system running amok, might activate certain genes that contribute to sweating. One also wonders to what extent the immune system is involved in hyperhidrosis altogether. I talked about these ideas with a few family members who are physicians and genetics researchers and to my surprise, they actually didn't dismiss these ideas as crazy. The more we know about the human body, the more we realize how complicated and interwoven it all is.

Just a few random thoughts here.

 

[Jezza]

Jezza,

I have wondered the same, since several members of my immediate family
have been diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis and have
the gene marker for it. My lower back pain started about the same time
as my excessive generalized sweating - just before I turned 41 (which
is extremely late for hyperidrosis). It seems that a certain percentage of those with AS also suffer from excessive generalized sweating, and one wonders whether AS, or an immune system running amok, might activate certain genes that contribute to sweating. One also wonders to what extent the immune system is involved in hyperhidrosis altogether. I talked about these ideas with a few family members who are physicians and genetics researchers and to my surprise, they actually didn't dismiss these ideas as crazy. The more we know about the human body, the more we realize how complicated and interwoven it all is.

Just a few random thoughts here.

I just came accross this as I was reading through some old posts, didn't notice this last post back then. I completely agree about the possible immune system/HH connection (/BUMP :bigsmile

 

[jay77]

I use the hidrex machine. You should try putting vaseline all over the top of her hands where her hands don't sweat and mostly around her nailbeds. Don't put the vaseline on areas where she does sweat. The vaseline protects the area that does not sweat. When I don't use vaseline, I can only tolerate using it on 7 for about 15 minutes. When I started using vaseline, I could use it for 60 minutes and got it all the 34.