"Being yourself", alpha males, etc.

#1
People like to throw terms like "alpha" and "beta" male around until they sort of mutate into weird notions with no basis in biology. Now, I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure the "alpha/beta" dichotomy (not trying to sound pretentious) the average schmuck refers to doesn't really relate to the way the terms are used in regard to animal behavior....but whatever.

Many guys on the Internet like to complain about how they can't date because they are "nice guys" and they finish last (which still kinds of implies that they do finish eventually, but whatever). Of course, the guys complaining about their niceness are subverting any of their professed niceness by only being nice to get chicks, which makes them not all that nice. Whereas the "alpha" (which seems to be synonymous with "jock"-apparently these people live in a world where everyone is either a jock or a nerd...it's like that Star Trek episode where they visited a 1920's gangster civilization based on a book about gangsters that a starship crew left behind...except their civilization is based on a recording of "Revenge of the Nerds II: Nerds in Paradise"). So, I don't want to fall in the trap of becoming one of those guys-I have dipped into that territory in the past, though, which is definitely not cool.

My question is...what about if you actually ARE "nice", without using it as an excuse to be a creep? I don't call refer to myself as a "nice" guy, because I think I have positive qualities beyond niceness. I feel like being nice is the default-I don't think I should be congratulated just for being "nice", just like I shouldn't be congratulated for not stabbing people with rusty nails.

However, I admit to being sort of a "wuss"...and it's not that I'm too timid to be anything else. It's that I don't really want to be more aggressive or be throwing my weight around. I've been like this since I was a kid-I'd rather just go for a walk or ride my bike around than play an organized sport, and I spent a lot of time putting together Legos or doing puzzles when I probably should have been getting into fights with the neighborhood lads or something. Today, I'd rather read a book or mess around downtown than be the "life of the party" (I also have a feeling that alpha males don't say "life of the party"). I don't really care about being a musclebound behemoth-I just want to be fit, in order to be better looking and healthier, which seem like perfectly good reasons.

Usually, I'm okay with this, even to the point when I actually feel really okay about who I am...until I'm confronted with a society that says I'm not okay, that I need to be a leader, and that I need to take what's mine rather than negotiate for it, or else other men won't respect me and my girlfriend/wife, if I manage to snag one, will eventually leave me for a "real man", and that I'm just being a weaselly "nice guy" who envies the more fortunate. However, in real life, I feel like there are tons of mellow yet confident "average" sorts of guys-it doesn't make any sense to me that every successful man is an aggressive "alpha". I mean, I see confidence as not getting pushed around by other people-I don't feel the need to control people. I don't know...it's as if you're repeatedly told to become confident by "being yourself", as long as "being yourself" conforms with the way the majority acts. Or am I just being a "nice guy" who needs to "man up"?
 

upndwn

Well-known member
#2
I'm not to fond of the term "Alpha" male myself, to me there are more facets to a person than being either a "Jock" or a "nerd". Humans are complicated beings and there are many reasons why someone is better at picking up girls than others.

There is the physiological factor, women tend to be more physically attracted to tall men with symmetrical faces and a V shaped upper body (i.e, broad shoulders, muscular torso and flat/slim waist) since these are traits that represent good genes and health. Personality vice women often likes men who are witty and have a good sense of humor, who are self-confident and honest (according to what I have read at least).

Out of these traits I would say I have three (a symmetrical face and a good sense of humor and I'm reasonably honest), I lack self confidence, are pretty short and a little chubby. I am terrible at picking up girls. I use weeks to build up the courage to ask someone out and by the time i have built up the courage we are already good friends, and girls don't wanna date their friends (in my experience).

I think those so called "Alpha" males are more spontaneous and not afraid to take risks. I am terrified of rejection and always back out if I have any competition.

I wish I new how to overcome my shortcomings and become a so called "Alpha" male, but after 33 years of living with the same fears I am afraid I will never overcome them.
 

coyote

Well-known member
#3
i have known a number of non-alpha males in healthy relationships with great women

i suspect these men didn't "snag" or "pick up" their partners

and yet, the fact remains that their relationships do exist

how do suppose this might be the case?
 
#4
i have known a number of non-alpha males in healthy relationships with great women

i suspect these men didn't "snag" or "pick up" their partners

and yet, the fact remains that their relationships do exist

how do suppose this might be the case?
*Rep point! :)
 

upndwn

Well-known member
#5
i have known a number of non-alpha males in healthy relationships with great women

i suspect these men didn't "snag" or "pick up" their partners

and yet, the fact remains that their relationships do exist

how do suppose this might be the case?
I guess some people are just lucky :rolleyes:

I think a lot of people get together through common interests, going to the same class, working together etc. But there is always the stories of two random people meeting at a bus stop.
 
#6
I think a lot of my problems would be go away, or at least decrease, with less rumination and more actual real life experience. I live in a pretty unhealthy small town environment, and I'm reluctant to move until I hear back from some of the jobs I've applied for elsewhere.
 

IGotSeoul

Well-known member
#7
The alpha/beta concept is really flawed. Not so much the ideology of leadership, confidence, and certain physical genetic traits being attractive, but of how much society weighs on it in the literal sense of defining and separating two types of people. It is nothing like that. The term was adopted from animal behavior; we are far more dynamic.

Yes I think a certain level of confidence is desired. Not cockiness, arrogance, or the jock image that is commonly associated with such. But simply appreciate who you are; realize that you are a wonderful, unique individual, with a strong set of skills and abilities. You have strengths and interests, embrace them. Be proud of who you are. With that confidence be polite, available to help others, and genuinely listen as well as speak.

Yes I think a certain level of physical attractiveness is required. But there are so many more dimensions for people. The study of women and men and their physical desires are limited only to their preference of physical desires. We may see a physically attractive woman but be completely turned off by her personality. We might see a less attractive woman and fall absolutely in love with her because of her personality and other dimensions.

You're a good guy with a solid heart from what I can tell. Be yourself and be proud.
 

Honda

Well-known member
#10
I would hate the society uses this concept to mark or judge people it will make matters difficult.. But unfortunately you have to sometimes fight to earn your respect or else even your closest friends will take some advantage of your weakness..

Many people are like vultures and hypocrites... You dont meet good people everyday... All of them look for weaker people to prey on.. So alpha man or not you have to earn your respect and once you know nobody can get the best of you, you will forget about all this non-sense... Cuz technically your went up the food chain..
 

Honda

Well-known member
#11
I would hate the society uses this concept to mark or judge people it will make matters difficult.. But unfortunately you have to sometimes fight to earn your respect or else even your closest friends will take some advantage of your weakness..

Many people are like vultures and hypocrites... You dont meet good people everyday... All of them look for weaker people to prey on.. So alpha man or not you have to earn your respect and once you know nobody can get the best of you, you will forget about all this non-sense... Cuz technically your went up the food chain..

This new age crap is getting on my nerves. I think future generations will look back and find us to be the stupidest and dumbest generation ever.. Especially those living a city life... Where parties 24/7, drug abuse and abortions.. We have alot of potential and opportunities to achieve alot in this era, yet we just b***h and do what it takes to runaway from the hard part.. Many people are sick and distrubed and try to abuse others thinking it makes them feel superiror and satisfies their ego..
 
#12
I would hate the society uses this concept to mark or judge people it will make matters difficult.. But unfortunately you have to sometimes fight to earn your respect or else even your closest friends will take some advantage of your weakness...
I never said it was cool to be a pushover or to have people walk all over you. There's a difference between being introverted and being a doormat; it's just too bad the two are often seen as interchangeable. You can be a natural introvert and still be confident.

I also think most people are just out to mind their own business and accomplish mundane, day to day tasks. I don't think the average person spends much time plotting against other people; most just want to be left alone. Maybe I'm just being naive.
 
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whatisis

Active member
#13
Women don't like nice guys. If a guy is too nice, he seems weak. Having a strong ego is the best thing you can do for yourself. Here are some things that have helped me. They really help with anxiety too.

Stand tall, look around freely, smile/laugh (not always), don't be overly interested in people, be cocky(it's ok), don't take yourself so seriously.

Lastly, every morning, raise one arm up and shake your fist saying, "I am awesome, I am a great person" etc. Than compliment yourself on something specific.

For whatever reason, people are told not to have a such a big ego. Why? It is very important to have a strong ego. Strong ego=confidence. Just don't be arrogant. There's a difference.
 

AGR

Well-known member
#14
I am like this,so if someone doesnt like me I cant do anything,I wont change,at least not a fake change to please others.
 

Felgen

Well-known member
#15
Most people don't know what an alpha male is as of 2011. Among the "cool kids" in high school who got all the girls, there were ONE alpha male, and the rest of the gang consisted of "cool" beta and "cool" omega males. These beta and omega males still got girls because they were cool--and they were cool because they were "gangsta" (and that was cool because popular culture said so).

Out in the wild, the alpha male is the first one to mate with the females, not the only one. He is also the first one who gets to eat, but that doesn't mean that the other members of the pack doesn't get their share as well. If an alpha chimp deprives the other males of their right to f*** or eat, then he'll be overthrown.
 
B

Beatrice

Guest
#18
i am a super nice guy, and i've had sex 3,874 times with 33 different women


i agree with the rest of your post though

Just to add my two cents (for what it's worth....), there have been "nice guys" in the past I've been attracted to, but the attraction faded quickly as the "niceness" got more and more annoying. It did seem weak to me. That's just me of course, and I know that there are many women who do like those types. But personally I find if you're too nice it just makes you seem like you're not sure of yourself, and that you would give in too easily to things, which would drive me nuts.
 
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