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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoddesdon View Post
This thread is offensive.
Only if you take offence to it.

Only some do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoddesdon View Post
This thread is offensive.
Could you provide more information as to why Hoddeson?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vj288 View Post
I was thinking about something on a similar train of thought as this recently. Not exactly, but similar.

I was thinking about Thomas Hobbs, who was this philosopher who basically believed that humans, when left to their own devices, are a-holes. Or in other words, that people are selfish and always look out for themselves first, and what is best for their continued survival at optimal conditions. And a solution to that was to have a social contract of sorts, and a Leviathan.

So if I agree not to kill you, and you agree not to kill me, than we can both focus on growing a garden instead of sharpening tools to protect ourselves from one another. That's the contract bit. Then there is the need for an enforcer, or a leviathan, to make sure people adhere to the contract. In modern day first world countries, it's the government that takes this role. If I break the contract and kill you, the government will punish me.

It's still people looking out for their best interests though. Adhering to the contract and others doing so as well would in theory allow for me to live the best possible life, and for others to do the same.

So I was applying this to religion and two thoughts came to my head. One was what you were getting at Blue, in that it was man-made to function as a leviathan itself. Sort of as a "Hey! Don't murder people or you will spend eternity burning in hell! Isn't that much less in your best interest than, oh, I don't know, just not killing people?" So if that was the reality, that seemed to make sense to me.

On the other side, in argument for God's existence, and if the world is full of a-holes as Thomas Hobbs suggests, what's the dude supposed to do to stop people from acting like a-holes? I mean he could come down and be like "yo guys, it would be really awesome if y'all were nice to each other, and really it would be beneficial if you didn't have to sleep with one eye open, amirite?" but without any muscle to back it up, you're going to have plenty of people seeing the opportunity to take advantage of this system. If that were the case, it would also make sense for the reward and punishment system to exist as it does.

I don't really know though, those were just thoughts that popped in my head though. I've always struggled with the seemingly infinite number of unknown variables when discussing the topic. It's interesting to look at through a particular lens once and a while though.
That's definitely food for thought, vj That theory would explain an awful lot of history.

(makes a note to do some in depth research on Thomas Hobbs, when she has some spare time)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PugofCrydee View Post
Could you provide more information as to why oddeson?
You are clearly being sarcastic. If you wish to claim otherwise, then you have to say that Jesus did, in fact, appear to you. That does happen e.g. Father Themistocles Adamopolous, who comes from Melbourne and runs an orphanage in Sierra Leone in West Africa. However, from subsequent posts in this thread, that clearly did not take place.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PugofCrydee View Post
Yes I agree to that point.

But what sort of god threatens you with eternal pain if you don't follow them?
My answer would be the same.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoddesdon View Post
You are clearly being sarcastic. If you wish to claim otherwise, then you have to say that Jesus did, in fact, appear to you. That does happen e.g. Father Themistocles Adamopolous, who comes from Melbourne and runs an orphanage in Sierra Leone in West Africa. However, from subsequent posts in this thread, that clearly did not take place.
No, I wasn't being sarcastic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lily View Post
My answer would be the same.
Ok, but thats not really answering the question.


Here's another one for you then.

Do you want children one day?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PugofCrydee View Post
Ok, but thats not really answering the question.


Here's another one for you then.

Do you want children one day?
it does answer the question.
that's a hard question. the world can be hard to live in
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Quote:
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No, I wasn't being sarcastic.
So what is the point then?
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How about we ask the answers about religion with someone who has read the bible cover to cover multitude of times? They have actually read cover to cover 100s of times......instead of a university "world bible degree".

1 Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 10:14:
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

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I don't think quoting the bible qualifies as constructive, thoughtful and least of all convincing in a debate about religion.
In fact it's probably the least convincing argument one could put forward.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoddesdon View Post
So what is the point then?
This thread was made for those who wish to debate religion. The admin stated this was a thread where one could state their thoughts without the fear of causing offence to others.
All points of view on the subject are welcome.

That is the point.

If you are offended by posts here or the thread itself I would suggest you refrain from reading it.
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'No one is dumb who is curious. The people who don't ask questions remain clueless throughout their lives'.

- Neil deGrasse Tyson
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God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance.


-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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The problem in society is not kids not knowing science.
The problem is adults not knowing science.
They outnumber kids 5 to 1., they wield power, they write legislation.

When you have scientifically illiterate adults, you have undermined the very fabric of what makes a nation wealthy and strong.

- Neil deGrasse Tyson.
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I guess his god told him it's ok to abuse kids. Nothing new there..



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Quote:
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I guess his god told him it's ok to abuse kids. Nothing new there..



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zzZBku-s-s
I'd be hitting the damn priest if that was my kid
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