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Old 4 Weeks Ago
OceanMist's Avatar
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Ok. I'll tell you that I'm on and off in online dating. Real choppy. I don't have it attached to my phone so only get on when on my computer.

Anyway I'm looking at ratios tonight.

I swear there is something going on.

the sausage fest that is POF. There is something going on there.

I just saw a site claiming POF is like 55% men to 45% women and there is no freaking way that is accurate.

I've been on that site a lot and it is an absolute sausage fest.

In my area it's got to be at least 3:1 male to female.

And let's not forget, most fake profiles are, you guessed it, female profiles, and many of those are guys pretending to be women to get your credit card number.

The discussion begins. Put in your opinions, facts, whatevs. I'll be back with more research and opinions and hopefully facts.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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I read on a reddit thread once that POF is like the "walmart" of dating sites, haha 😂 For the majority of 2016 I chose to use OKcupid and had overall an average of one female "friend" (per month) I could talk to for around 4-5 weeks before they left me forever. Aside from all of the times I was ignored by other women, but the ratios of men to women might be somewhat close to that of okcupid I suppose. I never went on any dates. I'm interested in reading more of what you have to say on dating sites.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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I remember a time of chaos... ruined dreams... this wasted land.
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I used to use those sites, what seems like a hundred years ago, but only to see what kind of matches I got. I never communicated with anyone as I didn't trust it.

My friends used POF and OKC but they said all the girls they actually went on dates with were nuts. I don't know any girls who used it, so I can't comment on that aspect.

As far as the B/G ratios, it kind of makes sens that the D's would outnumber the V's. Why would an attractive girl need a dating site when penis is the cheapest thing on the planet?

The guys on there are probably desperate because they can't talk to girls in real life and the girls on there are probably desperate because they're crazy and can't get a guy in real life to stay with them. It's a baaaaaaaaaaaad combination that probably almost always ends in disaster.

Hell, my best friend married his eHarmony match and they only lasted a year and a half.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Originally Posted by FountainandFairfax View Post
Why would an attractive girl need a dating site when penis is the cheapest thing on the planet?
Certainly not a concept conducive to improving your results, whether it be true or not.

But I agree, don't bother with dating sites. From everything I have seen including my own direct experience, online simply does not work at all for socially-challenged men, except with colossal and extreme effort to maybe get ONE actual date in person after thousands of attempts. This is what I've gathered anecdotally from what other awkward guys have said, and is reflected in my own experience--although I was never willing to message every possible woman across 8 sites in the hope that one will meet, after many months of trying. That's the part I didn't do (and never will.)

The silver lining is there are plenty of women who may be interested in socially awkward guys so long as you meet them in real life. Approach, introduce yourself, they're not going to bite your head off. That's what you have to do, so man up and do it; and if you're not willing to do that, you have essentially no options at all. Socially anxious guys don't usually "invite" attention toward themselves, you have to accept that women only do the work for guys with social pizazz, and that's not us.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Well, dating can be something that can happen without seeing each other - I really don't know about it. But it might be hard to find this 'platonic pen-pal' from all those fakes and non-matches. Besides that, it would be interesting to find someone to talk with - someone with the same interests.

But using dating websites for that, could be cumbersome - I can't tell, as I can't say I've had any experience. Maybe, try and find someone else with social anxiety and the same interests as you? That could be one way to test the waters... but then again, it would be hard to find someone like that.

...
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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I was sending messages again tonight.

Ugh. I'm already sick of looking at the girls.

I'm a skinny guy. Seriously like 80% of the women on these sites look like they had a lot of McDonalds if you catch my drift.

I get responses but they don't invest much at all into the conversation.

It usually consists of me asking a question. and then they answer the question and with a short sentence and that's it. Rarely does a girl like stay in the conversation and show interest in me.

No i'm not ugly. I'm about a 5.5 or 6 on a 1-10 scale. Thin guy.

I give everyone here my final note I just saw on a website with a guy who used POF:

"The ratio of men to women is about 7:1 and the end result is swarms of men fighting for the attention of one woman, not different from the barbarian days of the cavemen when they would clobber one another over the head in order to win the partner of their dreams."

I think he is close to the truth there. I'm starting to think that it's seriously worse than a 4:1 ratio of men to women. It really may be 7:1
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanMist View Post
"The ratio of men to women is about 7:1 and the end result is swarms of men fighting for the attention of one woman, not different from the barbarian days of the cavemen when they would clobber one another over the head in order to win the partner of their dreams."

I think he is close to the truth there. I'm starting to think that it's seriously worse than a 4:1 ratio of men to women. It really may be 7:1
Yes, it sucks hard...but the tables have always been tilted towards men on dating sites. I agree with Fountain that "p" is the cheapest thing on the planet. But in my experience on OKC there is a silver lining to dating sites. If it is a 7:1 ratio like it is claimed to be, then there must be a random number out of those 7 men that are only looking for sex (Netflix and chill as they call it). A majority of women on dating sites aren't looking for sex, they want a real connection with an "attractive" man (someone off the cover of a GQ magazine apparently? Is that the level of male attractiveness it f*ckin takes? ) so messages purely for sexual purposes are ignored or thrown away I'm willing to bet. I don't claim to know any of that without a shadow of a doubt, I only know what I've heard in online dating site reviews and some direct conversations online with other women. So even if the odds are 7:1 or even higher than that, you still have an advantage over a little of that 7.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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But what if he is mostly looking for something casual?

Advantage gone, then?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
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I'm not sure if it's because I live in a rural area maybe, but when I used dating sites in the past I usually had success in finding dates, as terrifying as going on them had been. I'm grateful for their existence, as I can't imagine that facet of my life without dating site (or the internet, in general). Every romantic encounter I've ever had, whether it be relationships or whatever, all have started first on the internet.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago
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I've been sending quite a bit of messages lately.

You guys, the more i do this, the more I see how bad the ratio is on the dating sites.

There are SO many more men on there than women.

I was talking to girls today quite a bit. I got some numbers so I was texting with like 4 or 5 different women today.

One of them texted a lot and we got to talking about her pictures and she brought this up, not me, the way she said this totally gave away how many messages she was getting.

Women are seriously like celebrities on these sites. I used to think an average woman was averaging like 4 new messages a day, but after talking to this chick i was talking to today who, let's say she's average looking for her 38 year old age, I can tell you she's gotta be getting at least 50 new guys messaging her a week. AT LEAST.

She uses the expression "this one is popular now" after just putting a pic up yesterday. That tells me that probably dozens of men are commenting on that pic after putting up YESTERDAY.

She even said she's getting SO MANY comments about her photos.

People, i'm going to be honest. I'm about a 6 on a 1-10 scale. Some women have rated me higher than that.

I have to initiate the conversation for women to message with me 99.9% of the time. Most of the women flake out pretty fast. And that's without me using some sexual talk that like 80% of guys try using in their first messages.

Like i do well. I get an above average amount of responses and numbers. Yet this average chick is getting like over 200 new messages a month for just putting up a profile and having pics??

It's so skewed on there.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Dating is much easier for women than it is for men, so it makes sense that pretty much all dating websites have more men than women. Naturally confident and outgoing women are not likely to use dating sites.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago
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I've only dated 2 people and both were found on the internet.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanMist View Post
Like i do well. I get an above average amount of responses and numbers. Yet this average chick is getting like over 200 new messages a month for just putting up a profile and having pics??

It's so skewed on there.
I suggested before that you ought not to bother. Every one of these "dating sites" works for only 2 groups of folks, the first being "most women" who use it as mostly a tool for getting free attention, the second group (men) is narrow. To belong to this you should be 6 foot or taller, or otherwise have a 6 figure income (then your looks don't matter.) Another way for unexceptional guys is if you can craft your profile like an Instagram celebrity; if you look socially suave and exciting and it shows in your pictures, that will compensate nicely as well. But this is not something many guys can *honestly* do. Socially awkward guys cannot use this style and need to rely on other things (see above.)

If you're not in one of these groups, the answer is simple. Don't use these sites. This should all be common sense by now. That means if you are "most men" you should not be using dating sites except to lower self-esteem.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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^I wouldn't discredit dating sites that quickly. The first thing I'd say is if you go into the "game" thinking it's rigged or that no one would want to date you, it's going to add a major disadvantage. If you don't think you're worth dating that's going to reflect directly in your profile. You have to be honest too of course, but think of it from the other side, if you feel like only a loser would date you, generally people don't want to feel like a loser. There's nothing wrong with a person for being awkward and shy and struggling with mental illness, but once it's made a character flaw it's read all over your profile.

And I would say the profile for a male on a dating site is the most important thing. Male appearance in our society is generally valued much, much less than female appearance. While there are as many shallow women who only look at the money figures as there are men who just look at the pictures, it's not all of them. I wouldn't say you have to make a profile like an Instagram profile per se, but you have to make it in a way that would make someone want to date you. When I used them, I talked about how shy and awkward I was all throughout my profile, but I wasn't down on myself for it.

The other thing is that yes, women on those dating sites get A ton of messages from guys. If you ask a women though, she'll probably tell you a lot of them are one liners like "hey beautiful" or "I read your profile and think you're really cool!" which they just skip right over, because it's sounds like a a copy/paste message sent to every girl on the site. The guys who actually read the profiles (which on POF are very short - frankly not not the best dating site out there, in my opinion) and give a thoughtful response to it and answer any questions in it are put straight to the top of the list.

I don't think it's all that different than real life. You have all the guys who walk up to girls and cat call or feed them a one liner that they prepared for every girl they see that night. Then you have the guys who make an actual effort to start a conversation and get to know a person, listen to what they have to say and respond thoughtfully. Dating sites actually put the one-liners at a disadvantage I'd say, as they have to compete with so many of the listeners who have a tough time doing it in person.

Those are just some of my thoughts in my experience. While when it comes to pure numbers guys vastly outnumber women, but those numbers drop when you consider how many don't try either because they think they're going to fail anyway or don't realize that dating sites are not craigslist.

(Also I'm not talking specifically about you Bronson, just a general thought)
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Old 1 Week Ago
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Originally Posted by vj288 View Post
^I wouldn't discredit dating sites that quickly. The first thing I'd say is if you go into the "game" thinking it's rigged or that no one would want to date you, it's going to add a major disadvantage. If you don't think you're worth dating that's going to reflect directly in your profile.
There may be something to this because I literally cannot lie to myself; I think a lot of unexceptional guys and even some socially deficient guys are able to throw out the concept of "status/value" and act as if they are worthwhile anyway. I have less access to this ability especially given what I know about how these things work from experience, not to mention real-life observation. Of course, being autistic means I can't help but see the distasteful truth of life and I cannot gloss over it.

Quote:
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And I would say the profile for a male on a dating site is the most important thing. Male appearance in our society is generally valued much, much less than female appearance. While there are as many shallow women who only look at the money figures as there are men who just look at the pictures, it's not all of them. I wouldn't say you have to make a profile like an Instagram profile per se, but you have to make it in a way that would make someone want to date you. When I used them, I talked about how shy and awkward I was all throughout my profile, but I wasn't down on myself for it.
A man's written profile counts, but it's mostly about these "written" things: height, higher education, and income.

I have doubt that any written description can be good enough to cover universal mediocrity.

The more awkward or shy a man is, the MORE he needs things like higher education and income to compensate, far more in fact than your standard extrovert. This in itself is not even a guarantee as I've learned, until you hit the level of law degree (JD) or at least put in an in-demand degree or elite school education; STRONG higher-education is another shortcut to bypass social deficiency or some kind of disability. Some "run of the mill" degree from a crappy college will only help marginally.

And a guy who is lacking in all of these areas has no chance at all online. I regret trying at all, my self-esteem is bruised (but maybe it is my fault because I've always been a hypersensitive/fragile type.) I should have known I lack literally everything the fairer sex wants. What's the point of trying, man, in this case? Be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vj288 View Post
The guys who actually read the profiles (which on POF are very short - frankly not not the best dating site out there, in my opinion) and give a thoughtful response to it and answer any questions in it are put straight to the top of the list.
I tried that and it still doesn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vj288 View Post
Those are just some of my thoughts in my experience. While when it comes to pure numbers guys vastly outnumber women, but those numbers drop when you consider how many don't try either because they think they're going to fail anyway or don't realize that dating sites are not craigslist.
I tried Craigslist as well and there are some ways it is worse than dating sites. It's hard to talk about without sounding insensitive. I'll say the worst part of it was the many women sending page-long emails who usually did not even live in the same STATE as I did, all of them making a point to ask what I did; if you got in a conversation with them, they wanted to know how much I made or what I did very quickly. The gold-digger thing is very real and very unsettling.

Although I still reserve the most scorn for dating sites. The way everyone including women treat like it a LinkedIn page where everyone lists 2 Master Degrees and 75 other things "going on" in their life when it's got to be a lot of vanity BS.

I guess for women it's a way to try and narrow down the list of men who respond, in hope to find "someone high quality" and I bet many of these Double Master Degree women with 2 fulltime jobs and 75 hobbies are using a lot of creative writing skill, to feed their egocentric search for something male that has "good value, yo, because anything less is beneath me."
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Old 1 Week Ago
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Wow guys. Something crazy happened on Friday.

I was talking to the same woman I spoke of in my last post.

Get this, she just volunteers this info. I didn't have to really even ask.

She asks me how many women initiate contact with me per day on average on POF. (meaning woman makes first move)

For me, this is the truth, it averages to zero. Easily. The number of woman that initiate contact with me in a given year is seriously like 5 maybe? That's in a year! It can't be more than 10.

Alright....this woman says she AVERAGES 20 MESSAGES A DAY.

Let me remind you, i don't mean this as insult, the woman is a 38 yr old woman with kids, and I'm being generous when i say on the looks scale she's around average.

I confirmed, do you mean 20 different guys, NEW guys that you haven't talked to yet , are messaging a day? She says yeah.

When I told her I get about 0 new girls initiating messages with me a day, that i always have to send messages first to receive messages from new girls, she just says wow. Like in a "that sucks" kind of way.

It took me a while to wrap my head around this.

She's getting 20 a day. Ok she does live in Kansas city. For any of you who don't know, that's a good sized city.

So you can kind of predict how many messages other women are getting just by their picture and location.

So take a hot woman who is 22 years old for example.

Let's say she lives in Kansas city.

She is probably getting over 50 messages a day from new guys. And that's NOT a crazy number even though it may sound like it.

As for me, out of the 5 or 6 girls i've been texting with, not a single one initiated text with me today after i had conversations with them texting with them all yesterday. So much for give and take right? lolz.

If you read through my whole post here, maybe you'll see why these women usually don't initiate texts with many guys. THEY DON'T NEED TO. they are constantly getting bombarded with attention on these dating sites.

This explains why so many women flake out.

To guys: it's probably not you. It's probably her talking to 50 different guys at the same time.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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I suppose women have to be careful who they initiate contact with. There are safety risks involved for them, unfortunately.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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Why lose hope in finding someone who might have social anxiety? The difficulty might be increased tenfold, but still, you get to share a lot of things in common - for example, it would be much easier to communicate with someone, if you knew that they share the same difficulties as you do.

IMHO, if you're looking for serious relationships, it would be much better to place looks at the end of the list - most of the time, it's what the personality, that matters. Besides, all those women who might be looking for tall, high-earning guys might not necessarily have to end up with good partners. There's always some sort of rebellious women, and they won't be looking for the stereotype mentioned above.

Women get messages - a lot of them. SO why not try some other dating websites. It's funny to me, that they're all looking for qualities that are purely based on probability of success in the later part of the relationship, when they actually should be focussing on things that would be interesting to both of them(mutual interests and 'hobbies'). That way, it's at least proof that it's not just a bland relationship based on wealth or looks alone.

And not to sound pessimistic, but at least 50 of a 100 messages (80 is okay as well) received by women, are just ignored after reading them (as pointed out by the above posts) - it's like finding a needle in the haystack for women, while it's like hunting for the perfect prey, for men.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronson99 View Post
A man's written profile counts, but it's mostly about these "written" things: height, higher education, and income.

I have doubt that any written description can be good enough to cover universal mediocrity.

The more awkward or shy a man is, the MORE he needs things like higher education and income to compensate, far more in fact than your standard extrovert. This in itself is not even a guarantee as I've learned, until you hit the level of law degree (JD) or at least put in an in-demand degree or elite school education; STRONG higher-education is another shortcut to bypass social deficiency or some kind of disability. Some "run of the mill" degree from a crappy college will only help marginally.

And a guy who is lacking in all of these areas has no chance at all online. I regret trying at all, my self-esteem is bruised (but maybe it is my fault because I've always been a hypersensitive/fragile type.) I should have known I lack literally everything the fairer sex wants. What's the point of trying, man, in this case? Be honest.
You're right, with up to 50 messages a day depending on the location woman do have the ability to be very picky. And I do think having social anxiety or autism or depression or any mental health issue can narrow the field quite a bit, on or offline. For me, the internet has always been more of a help than a hindrance though. In person, if I went up to a person and said "hey, want to go on a date with me?" they'd never say yes because the whole interaction would be so awkward for everyone. Online, I can take that away, introduce myself and up-sell the good parts of me, and explain away the weird and awkward. I met quite a few people from this forum before I tried online dating, and for me it made things so much more comfortable, it changed my whole perspective from "I can't do this" to "It's tough, but I can do this."

If I'm being honest about whether or not you should try, I would say I'm not sure, I don't think they work for everyone. I have a very extroverted friend, for example, who hated using the sites and found going out to the bar or wherever easier for him, as his "presence" is one quality of his that makes him attractive, as a friend or otherwise. For someone like me, the computer screen makes it much easier for me to express myself and put myself out there, and showcase my qualities that make me worth dating, I think. I'm not sure what qualities about yourself you think make you most worth dating, but I would identify them, and then find a way to communicate that information to the single community best, whether it's online dating or some offline avenue.

And as I'm using myself as an example now, I should say this: I make a couple dollars above minimum wage, live in my parents basement, do have a bachelors degree, a (very depressing) receding hairline, and the social skills on par with most 3rd grades, in person at least.
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Old 1 Week Ago
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The argument that "most messages get ignored by women" is moot and let me tell you why.

Statistically speaking, the above quote is irrelevant due to the amount of messages women get.

Let's assume a woman is average as far as attractiveness, money and personality goes, ok.

As i mentioned earlier, this woman will be getting around 15-20 messages a day from new men.

Let's go to the extreme. Let's say 80% of these messages are of the sort of sexual suggestions or "yo what up." Either that or she's not attracted to the guy's looks, money, etc. Things like that.

That still leaves 20% of men that are actually reasonable.

So 20 messages a day, meaning about 140 a week. 140 x .2=28 messages A WEEK that are worth responding to.

Now when you put that over the course of a month, she will have 130 or so new men that she's talking to with at least some consideration of hanging out with them.

Even if she's REALLY picky, that's 130 guys. If she weeds out a gigantic 90% out of these men which would be VERY picky, she's left with 13 MEN A MONTH where she has a legitimate option of dating.

Look at that over the course of the year. 156 men. That is an insanely high amount of options.

You see what I'm getting at?

I know some of you guys reading this are like wow, we're lucky to get one girl in a month that is quality enough to where she'll actually want to meet and be the quality that we would be interested in going on a date with.

Women are getting almost 100 times as many quality options online.

Offline isn't all that much different.

Dating is a such a sausage fest. Wow.
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