Have you tried praying for a friend?

AtTheGates said:

When it comes to rejection-sensitivity dysphoria you might want to ask a doctor about that. Iv never heard of that diagnosis ..but I would say being a good person/kind-hearted person goes a long way with the right people even if you feel like you dont have much else to offer.

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I think we've got our wires crossed in this thread. For clarity, a few things. Rejection sensitivity is a problem both online as well as in real life, and yet in this context I was talking about online. Have you tried meeting anyone from online/dating sites? Have you not felt truly disadvantaged considering you've got SA and you're probably awkward as hell? This is what I'm talking about here in this context.

I'm saying I tried "online sites" before and it always felt like a long slog, a battle fought for no reason since I can only expect to lose no matter what.. rejection after rejection and my self-esteem came out worse than before.
And let's face it, online IS a competition for guys and you have to stand out in some way, to have a chance of meeting anyone. Kind-hearted is a good quality to have in any venue; but in my experience, and in my observation of others, it is not something that actually helps you meet women online.

AtTheGates said:

. Im sure there are girls/women out there who would be interested but the whole idea of cutting contact with her after she's served her purpose isnt very cool...just saying.

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I think you're more referring to what the OP has said, here?

Either way, intimate friends is what I would be looking for.. as I said before, I remain skeptical if this possible for "socially anxious loser" type of guys, my impression being awkward guys are only ever seen as "serious relationship" material. But I will admit, something like "intimate friends" seems ideal for me, personally. Within the context of a friendship (which is, in the end, still a kind of relationship) you're not "using" someone as a means to an end as long as both parties want the same thing.

Now hopefully I did not confuse things further.

theslowesthand said:

I "don't do" rejection, for similar reasons. The main reason being that i KNOW i'll never "attract" a woman (any attraction is momentary if at all),

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Pardon me but how do you KNOW you'll never attract any woman, ever? Are you clairvoyant?

Perhaps have you bought into the lies that mainstream society gives you, which goes like "you must have social fluency, you must have money, you must be ambitious, you must be attractive" and so on? And you think that since you lack such things, there is no chance you'll attract anyone?

Well, it's not true. You don't need any of those things to attract women.

kuurt said:

Anyone ever try to attract a friend with the law of attraction or the power of prayer?

Perhaps a lover or best friend of the opposite sex?

Who perhaps also has social anxiety (someone who can relate to you)?


I have attracted a friend before and a couple potential girlfriends with the power of prayer. The problem I had with the potential girlfriends was that I screwed up my chances with my social anxiety of course. Actually that's probably why I lost the friend too. But, I've never tried to pray for a girl that also has social anxiety. That might be worth a try.

If anybody gives this a try, come back to this post and share your results.

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Sure! I'm not an eloquent speaker, even in prayer but I bumble my way through it. I think God appreciates my effort because He knows it doesn't come naturally to me. Sometimes what I pray for on behalf of my friend happens, other times I can't really tell or I'm not around when the change is supposed to occur. Either way, it makes me feel like I've done something for them.

Oops, I just realized you were talking about praying to attract someone. I've never done that. I've a sneaking suspicion it wouldn't work.

Bronson99 said:

Pardon me but how do you KNOW you'll never attract any woman, ever? Are you clairvoyant?

Perhaps have you bought into the lies that mainstream society gives you, which goes like "you must have social fluency, you must have money, you must be ambitious, you must be attractive" and so on? And you think that since you lack such things, there is no chance you'll attract anyone?

Well, it's not true. You don't need any of those things to attract women.

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That's certainly true. It's a fact that there are different tastes in the world. If we can push ourselves to try and find a social outlet, there is always a chance we will meet someone who will like us, maybe even love us.

But if we give up before we begin, it will certainly never happen. We are more than our fears, and there are always people who will see us for who we are inside. It's just harder for us to find them because of self-esteem and anxiety issues.

Bronson99 said:

Have you tried meeting anyone from online/dating sites? Have you not felt truly disadvantaged considering you've got SA and you're probably awkward as hell?

I'm saying I tried "online sites" before and it always felt like a long slog, a battle fought for no reason since I can only expect to lose no matter what.. rejection after rejection and my self-esteem came out worse than before.
And let's face it, online IS a competition for guys and you have to stand out in some way, to have a chance of meeting anyone. Kind-hearted is a good quality to have in any venue; but in my experience, and in my observation of others, it is not something that actually helps you meet women online.



I think you're more referring to what the OP has said, here?

Either way, intimate friends is what I would be looking for.. as I said before, I remain skeptical if this possible for "socially anxious loser" type of guys, my impression being awkward guys are only ever seen as "serious relationship" material. But I will admit, something like "intimate friends" seems ideal for me, personally. Within the context of a friendship (which is, in the end, still a kind of relationship) you're not "using" someone as a means to an end as long as both parties want the same thing.

Now hopefully I did not confuse things further.

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yes I have and I know how nerve racking it is. it definitely isnt something I would invest ALOT into for just physical intimacy...I mean, if it all boils down to looking for a female friend to have a "fling" with and its mutual then thats understandable ....but ONE if not BOTH of you are going to develop some kind of of romantic feelings for each other....thats just what happens...and then someone gets hurt....thats why I dont believe in the whole "hook-up culture" thing because I think its fundamentally flawed . I think that kind of lust is something that can cloud people's minds to the point where they just start objectifying eachother and also other people. ...Thats just my view on it.

so basically I think we might have to just agree to disagree on that.

kuurt said:

...it sounds like you've given up hope.

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Yep, you nailed it. 45 yrs old & never been on a single date.

Bronson99 said:

Pardon me but how do you KNOW you'll never attract any woman, ever? Are you clairvoyant?

Perhaps have you bought into the lies that mainstream society gives you, which goes like "you must have social fluency, you must have money, you must be ambitious, you must be attractive" and so on? And you think that since you lack such things, there is no chance you'll attract anyone?

Well, it's not true. You don't need any of those things to attract women.

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I'm just basing this belief on 45 years of past experience, that's all. I've stood on the batting base, and kept swinging at the ball, but always missing (ie never getting to even base 1 EVER). Of course the type of attraction i'm talking about is where they are attracted enough to want to go on a date with me. It's never happened. Not once. :kickingmyself:

AtTheGates said:

thats why I dont believe in the whole "hook-up culture" thing because I think its fundamentally flawed

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Reminds me of the 70's "free love" thing ... there just weren't tinder & smartphones & web back then.

theoutsider said:

Oops, I just realized you were talking about praying to attract someone. I've never done that. I've a sneaking suspicion it wouldn't work.

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I kind of agree. However i'll willing to try the type of prayer that doesn't involve asking an entity for sth (as i don't like asking for help). I've just started trying visualization as my "prayer" of choice (did it once, just briefly); i think it works on the law of attraction - you think positive/practical images, and then apparently what you keep paying attention to will be drawn to you in real life. I can understand how that could work, and that's why i'm open to trying it. I just have to try and put my feeling of hopelessness aside for now, but that's doable, as it's only ~95% hopelessness in spite of everything (as i have had tiny successes with women over the years, just that none of my success has led to a date, sex, relationship, etc)

A good example of the infuriating complexity of my situation.
I spent a week at respite center a couple years back, due to having a nervous breakdown of sorts. One day there i met a young woman who worked the women's center next door. I chatted to her for say 10-15 mins. I found her friendly, receptive, attractive. As our conversation was ending she walked the other way & lifted her top/s enough to reveal her midift. Then a minute later i overheard her saying 'he's smooth!' to another social worker in the office.
That's the first & last time i saw her. No date or anything. Just enough to get me drooling & frustrated. That's how it is with me & women: look, enjoy, but never touch. :kickingmyself:

None of those things do anything.

theslowesthand said:

Reminds me of the 70's "free love" thing ... there just weren't tinder & smartphones & web back then.

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The problem is some people get the impression that the "love" part equals "sex" . Thats not love.

..I mean if having having sex in a field with some girl you just met (who is also intoxicated past the point of having the inhibitions to realize the full impact of what she's doing) is free love then count me out...There were ALOT of good things about the counter culture but that was NOT one of them. at that time, There were couples who lived in tipi's out in the woods and fed their kids LSD...true story.

but anyway, I digress. the counter-culture is just an interesting topic to me.


personally , I think there is a good reason why hook-up culture is looked down upon but not everyone will choose to see eye to eye with it. When people start tapping into their base tendencies more and more often it can really bring out a different side of them. thats why some people believe in being responsible when it comes to sex, drinking , drugs, ..all those things are in the same boat: instant gratification ..if you get to much into that stuff its not good for you..(causes your primal instincts to come out more and more.) but then again those tings shouldn't be repressed COMPLETLY either...my personal take on it is: I dont want to see women as objects of lust. I used to view women like that.


but anyway if people dont see eye to eye with me on that, its fine. everyone has their own views.

theslowesthand said:

I'm just basing this belief on 45 years of past experience, that's all. I've stood on the batting base, and kept swinging at the ball, but always missing (ie never getting to even base 1 EVER). Of course the type of attraction i'm talking about is where they are attracted enough to want to go on a date with me. It's never happened. Not once. :kickingmyself:

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If I recall correct, however, you never actually tried anything in real life. The only thing you did was wait and hope they would come up to you and show interest. That's not what I call swinging at the ball or trying. Of course, if it sounds terse, that's all I've ever done as well. So, I'm not trying to take the high ground.

But it does not work that way; the only way shy and awkward guys attract interest with minimal effort is to literally be "very attractive" in conventional ways. And that essentially means, the vast majority of shy and awkward guys have to try and meet women; you can't afford to sit back and wait. Nothing will happen if you do that.

Now it's possible I remember incorrectly and you did try meeting women and asking them out, etc, and still had no luck. But if not, then like I've implied, you can't know if you never tried. So try before it is too late. You have a good chance as long as you put yourself out there.

AtTheGates said:

but anyway if people dont see eye to eye with me on that, its fine. everyone has their own views.

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I respect your opinion, but you may be oversimplifying a complex thing, it's not as black-and-white as you see it.

Some folks do not want others to invade their personal space all the time, or essentially re-schedule their entire life because of the tacit "requirements" of the LTR concept.

Unfortunately, some folks--and IMHO it's not always their fault--cannot fit that mold. Social anxiety is of course quite impairing with relationships but my problem, at least, goes beyond simple SA. Do you have an actual understanding of autism, if I may ask? If not, you may not understand what I'm saying. If yes, you understand that the intense demand in every category of functioning, required in a "relationship" as we call them, would make this traditional LTR concept simply unworkable for many autistic people.

So is it better then that such folks who either cannot, or choose not to have LTR, go their entire life without any kind of romance or intimacy?

It seems you make it into a moral failing automatically, if someone desires some kind of intimacy without the structure of a LTR behind it. It's more complex than that, and there are many reasons why someone would be interested in other kinds of arrangements, not ALL of them selfish or destructive. In some cases it could be, of course. I get what you're saying on that, by the way, but will address that later.

(And may I ask if you don't get into "well if you see that way, just pay or get one of these expensive bots" I want to keep this discussion out of the political/moral high-ground pitfall. Agree to disagree is fine; condescending remarks are not fine.)

Bronson99 said:

If I recall correct, however, you never actually tried anything in real life. The only thing you did was wait and hope they would come up to you and show interest.

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I've tried flirting, and sometimes succeeded, but it never amounted to a date.
I've asked for a phone number, but they declined to give it to me.
I've asked if they want to hang out, but they declined the offer.

So i have tried, but not many times. And if i recall one key seduction technique is to keep on trying, through many rejections, but i couldn't handle that i don't think.

I don't like trying new things, or meeting new people, so that could be why i usually hesitate to take strong risk/action with women. I usually wait until i've seen them a number of times (eg in a shop), and then MAYBE i TRY to take some action, but usually i don't.
That's really what my Work or Play??? thread is about: how i make choices as to what to do or not do; in my case it's quite dysfunctional, as i stick to routine, never take risks (risk-averse), avoid change, etc. But those things apparently are common to people with Aspergers; they certainly fit me like a glove, and keep me "safe"; otherwise i get severly stressed.

One thing's for sure - my way doesn't work. So i need to change how i operate, somehow, if i ever want any luck at all with women.

AtTheGates said:

The problem is some people get the impression that the "love" part equals "sex" . Thats not love.

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Correct, it's only the "passionate love" (or physical) part.

kuurt said:

God doesn't lay down a right or wrong, but simply put a law in place that whatsoever you ask for (desire - desire is the asking) you will receive IF you believe.

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What about the starving kids around the world? They pray and ask for food (and they are totally innocent) yet they starve to death.

What about the kids with bone cancer? All they want is to get better, they pray with all their being like their loving parents, yet they die.
:thinking:

PugofCrydee said:

What about the starving kids around the world? They pray and ask for food (and they are totally innocent) yet they starve to death.

What about the kids with bone cancer? All they want is to get better, they pray with all their being like their loving parents, yet they die.
:thinking:

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its possible that because there is ALOT of people in he world that need help, god can't be everywhere at once. So sometimes PEOPLE have to do what they can to help each other . its interesting though when people feel like prayer hasn't personally worked for THEM so they think that its phony ,while not considering the fact that ALOT of people have been helped by prayer and christianity in general. at this exact moment I guarantee you that there is someone hanging on to life in a hospital or correctional institution ONLY because of the fact that they believe in god...thats the only thing that gives them the motivation to keep pushing forward, without that they might have killed themself ...and for the terminally ill patients that died, at LEAST they died knowing that everything would be ok (instead of being afraid) because they had faith that god will catch them when they pass through to the other side.

.... There were guys were I worked that wanted to see the chaplin almost EVERY day and didnt seem to care for much else. I guess they were just in a place in their life where they REALLY needed that.

organized religion may not be for everyone (I personally am not TOO big of a fan of it.. especially denominations that convince people that they shouldn't have free will and should only follow god's will instead)

but by and large , christianity in general has helped ALOT of people. it might help you too someday, whether you choose to realize it or not.

I mean its like I dont need an inhaler because I dont have asthma ....but I know that other people DO so I keep one in my car. Thats partly how I feel about prayer and christianity:I dont always need it and sometimes I myself have doubts..but its helped me before and iv SEEN it help other people too . So I keep believing .

Bronson99 said:

Some folks do not want others to invade their personal space all the time, or essentially re-schedule their entire life because of the tacit "requirements" of the LTR concept.

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We clearly arent going to agree on this but thats fine. I think we have different definitions of what you just described so maybe we should just leave it at that rather than potentially offending each other.

good discussion over all though. :thumbup:. you brought up some good points.

Disagreement is fine, it's just I'm still surprised I can't get you to come around and agree that it *may* be a valid viewpoint.

I've talked to other *women* online who thought the same way about it. They didn't want some "serious LTR" anymore, but at the same time did not want to be celibate for the rest of their life.

I don't see what is so wrong about that.